Huawei 5g in UK

It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for Huwawei to build multiple vulnerabilities into their 5G infrastructure, but it wouldn't be easy.

It's not just 5G and other comm's infrastructure though. China have got their fingers in an awful lot of pies in the UK. They are heavily invested in Ports, airports, water companies, energy companies (including nuclear) and transport infrastructure, amongst other industries. I don't wish to be alarmist, but China could do an awful lot of damage to the UK if they so wished.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for Huwawei to build multiple vulnerabilities into their 5G infrastructure, but it wouldn't be easy.

It's not just 5G and other comm's infrastructure though. China have got their fingers in an awful lot of pies in the UK. They are heavily invested in Ports, airports, water companies, energy companies (including nuclear) and transport infrastructure, amongst other industries. I don't wish to be alarmist, but China could do an awful lot of damage to the UK if they so wished.
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Completely agree, Australia as well, were not going anywhere near the chinese for our 5g network.
Just can't understand the British doing this.
 
Chippy_boy said:
1. China is not the enemy. To be honest I am not sure who I am more uncomfortable spying on us, the Chinese or the Americans!

2. I fail to see how much of a serious threat it is, having Huawei kit anyway. I think it would be very difficult for them to intercept and "listen" to traffic at all, let alone without us detecting it.

3. We've nothing to hide.

4. We need a top rate 5G infrastructure at the best possible prices, and that means Huawei.
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So you'd rather deal with a country that doesn't respect human rights ? Rather than our closest ally , ok.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
So the good old US of A don't want us to have Huawei? Got nothing to do with the US firms wanting the deal? Do you think that the security implications would be different with the yanks? Not on your life, they would want our secrets just as much as anyone else.
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Indeed. American technology companies were already caught including backdoors for their security services. The only mistake they made was spying on their own citizens. If it'd just been for foreigners, we'd have heard nothing about it and it'd still be happening now.

Having said that, the Chinese government is far worse than the American one. Well maybe not at the moment but America has better checks and balances.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Indeed. American technology companies were already caught including backdoors for their security services. The only mistake they made was spying on their own citizens. If it'd just been for foreigners, we'd have heard nothing about it and it'd still be happening now.

Having said that, the Chinese government is far worse than the American one. Well maybe not at the moment but America has better checks and balances.
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Snowden was a game changer for the intelligence communities, both in the USA and the UK (and generally worldwide).

The reason the USA are so reluctant to allow this technology is that if the boot were on the other foot, and they were supplying to China they would absolutely be building vulnerabilities into the kit to enable them to intercept network traffic.
 
BobKowalski said:
Using Huawei is far cheaper than not using Huawei. Cost always drives these decisions.

It seems we have helped in consolidating China’s dominance by selling British chip developer ARM to SoftBank in 2016. They in turn have sold 50% to China who then formed ARM China which in turn gives China the right to ARM’s Intellectual Property.

There is an argument to be made that we should have blocked the sale in 2016.
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ARM are a global PLC, I’m not sure we should/could be blocking them being bought by a Japanese company.
 
Chippy_boy said:
1. China is not the enemy. To be honest I am not sure who I am more uncomfortable spying on us, the Chinese or the Americans!

2. I fail to see how much of a serious threat it is, having Huawei kit anyway. I think it would be very difficult for them to intercept and "listen" to traffic at all, let alone without us detecting it.

3. We've nothing to hide.

4. We need a top rate 5G infrastructure at the best possible prices, and that means Huawei.
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What gets me though is how we're supposed to treat Chinese companies fairly when China refuses to afford Western companies the same rights. So take the example of Siemens. China are building some new high speed train lines and Siemens has the best technology in the sector and therefore gets the contract. But because of Chinese laws, only does so if it's effectively willing to share that technology with a local state-owned company. A few years later, the Chinese company has grown to be an industry leader and obviously gets all of the government contracts in China, and meanwhile when a train contract comes up in Germany, they're expected to consider the bid from this Chinese company on equal terms with those of European companies operating under laws that prevent state aid. The Chinese use protectionism, state aid and their monopoly on the huge domestic market to take technology from private overseas companies and build up their own industries, and then cry foul when those companies are blocked from big government contracts overseas. It's bullshit, and while I don't really know enough about the technology industry to know whether Huawei is a risk or not, we're definitely under no obligation to give Chinese companies massive government contracts that our companies would never get the right to bid for fairly over there.
 
Ban-jani said:
ARM are a global PLC, I’m not sure we should/could be blocking them being bought by a Japanese company.
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You can block on the grounds of security and ‘contrary to the national interest’. There is a case that the sale of ARM to a foreign company was not in our long term interest.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
What gets me though is how we're supposed to treat Chinese companies fairly when China refuses to afford Western companies the same rights. So take the example of Siemens. China are building some new high speed train lines and Siemens has the best technology in the sector and therefore gets the contract. But because of Chinese laws, only does so if it's effectively willing to share that technology with a local state-owned company. A few years later, the Chinese company has grown to be an industry leader and obviously gets all of the government contracts in China, and meanwhile when a train contract comes up in Germany, they're expected to consider the bid from this Chinese company on equal terms with those of European companies operating under laws that prevent state aid. The Chinese use protectionism, state aid and their monopoly on the huge domestic market to take technology from private overseas companies and build up their own industries, and then cry foul when those companies are blocked from big government contracts overseas. It's bullshit, and while I don't really know enough about the technology industry to know whether Huawei is a risk or not, we're definitely under no obligation to give Chinese companies massive government contracts that our companies would never get the right to bid for fairly over there.
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Can't argue with any of that, other than perhaps in refusing to use Huawei gear, we are cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

There's not much I agree with Trump about, but he absolutely right to try to persuade China to reform their trade practices. They've been ripping the west off for decades and decades - ever since my dad used to go their in the 60's and come back with a suitcase full of cassettes, all bootleg copies of the latest records ... sold freely in the Chinese shops with not a penny in royalties ever paid.
 
BobKowalski said:
You can block on the grounds of security and ‘contrary to the national interest’. There is a case that the sale of ARM to a foreign company was not in our long term interest.
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You could but at the time they were sold to a Japanese company. I don’t think they could have done anything about SoftBank selling 50% or whatever it is, of their stake.
 
Ban-jani said:
You could but at the time they were sold to a Japanese company. I don’t think they could have done anything about SoftBank selling 50% or whatever it is, of their stake.
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Well the Govt can block a sale irrespective of who the foreign entity is on the grounds they wish to keep sovereign control of the company. No other country allows the sale of its industrial and strategic assets on quite the scale of the UK.

All a bit moot now though.
 
BobKowalski said:
Well the Govt can block a sale irrespective of who the foreign entity is on the grounds they wish to keep sovereign control of the company. No other country allows the sale of its industrial and strategic assets on quite the scale of the UK.

All a bit moot now though.
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I’m not disagreeing with that, I’m just saying they weren’t selling it to the Chinese initially.
 
Strikes me a huge coincidence that the biggest opponent of Huawei gear is the US... whilst Cisco - the vendor set to benefit most from any Huawei ban - just happens to be, er, American.

China is not our enemy. What on earth do we fear from China spying on us (not that Huawei is really a threat at all) vs the US spying on us?

It's all about Trump and his protectionist policies and trying to prop up uncompetitive US businesses.
 
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Chippy_boy said:
Strikes me a huge coincidence that the biggest opponent of Huawei gear is the US... whilst Cisco - the vendor set to benefit most from any Huawei ban - just happens to be, er, American.

China is not our enemy. What on earth do we fear from China spying on us (not that Huawei is really a threat at all) vs the US spying on us?

It's all about Trump and his protectionist policies and trying to prop up uncompetitive US businesses.
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Every nation spies on everyone else, friend or foe.
 
Wasn’t (or isn’t) the ‘force de frappe’ aimed at Germany, Italy and Belgium - three of France’s primary allies but the only countries the Soviet Union could attack France from. All nations ultimately act in their own self interest. The question not being asked is how a nation that invented so much of the modern communications industry - how did we fall so far behind and have such limited capability ? Our manufacturing capability is so limited-its a strategic issue in so many sectors.
 
nimrod said:
I know where I'd rather live.
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I am not sure you grasped the point, which is that the US has consistently demonstrated it is a far greater threat to world peace than China ever has. The Chinese are not our enemy and it is ridiculously hypocritical of us to move our manufacturing over there, to buy their output in the $Trillions with everything from iPhones to trainers and yet then say they are a security threat. They are either allies or not, and clearly it is the former.
 
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