It’s a totalitarian, repressive state with a dictator in charge.... that just happens to be a superpower with an agenda to expand its territory and use bullying tactics on its trading partners.It’s a totalitarian, repressive state with a dictator in charge.
Rightly or wrongly we do business with loads of countries like that.
I’m sure you’re absolutely right and I’m not one to defend China’s actions on anything.It’s a totalitarian, repressive state with a dictator in charge.... that just happens to be a superpower with an agenda to expand its territory and use bullying tactics on its trading partners.
Can you explain why any country would issue travel advice to it's citizens not to travel to Australia ?
Other than pure economic bullying I can't think of one.
The only Anglosphere thing about Australia is that they speak English and play cricket.
China is upsetting most of the countries in the region with its aggressive attitude. The only way it can be curtailed or made to listen is if Washington and Brussels work together, which they won’t do. Partly because of a Trump but also because countries like Germany have too much trade and investment with China. There is some sign that EU countries are prepared to tackle some of the issues with China but I think it will fall well short.
Australia spoke out over Covid 19 which is why they got hit with the latest tariffs. Props for them for doing so as they were warned what would happen. China’s actions are short sighted and counter productive.
The UK is in a tough spot given relations with China are likely to go in the freezer, and our relations with Europe are likely to be chilly as well and the US is melting down over Covid. If we want to put pressure on China we need allies, but our influence in this region is non existent and siding with the Aussies isn’t going to cut it. Better bet would be India who are also having problems with China and are also a Commonwealth country. China couldn’t give a shit about Australia, India is more problematic for them.
Personally I think Europe should be pooling resource on tech capacity including 5g and keeping it ‘in house’ as much as possible, especially if you consider the security aspects. While I have some sympathy for ditching Huawei it’s a fact that a lot of their tech is already embedded in our telecommunications and replacing that and trying to advance 5g is going to be expensive, problematic and leave us behind other countries. I haven’t seen what the alternative proposals are but with everything else going on I have doubts about the capacity of the UK state to manage all the issues that are piling up.
True, but not many that are able to leverage their considerable influence to control our foreign and domestic policy. For what it's worth, the question was never whether Huawei was a threat, the question was whether that threat could be mitigated, hence the initial decision to only allow them access to non-vital parts of the network. Unfortunately, what the Hong Kong situation has shown is that their word on the international stage is worth nothing, and agreements they sign are worth nothing. So while it might be the case that currently Huawei is relatively independent of the state, there's absolutely nothing to stop any Chinese-based company effectively having to bow down to the state whenever they say. And more worrying is the direction of travel. The CCP has always been an oppressive dictatorship, but under Hu Jintao, there was a semblance of a willingness to become a member of the international community. Since President Xi took over, we have seen it become more authoritarian and quicker to throw its weight around internationally, particularly against its neighbours, but increasingly against some of our closest allies. Not to mention the increasingly draconian crackdown against citizens of their own country.It’s a totalitarian, repressive state with a dictator in charge.
Rightly or wrongly we do business with loads of countries like that.
To be fair, this is a great argument for not selling shitloads of arms to Saudi Arabia, not in favour of cosying up to China. But in principle, there's still a big difference between selling or buying from someone, and inviting them into your country to run your key infrastructure. To some extent, we're always going to be reliant on awful regimes, but when Russian threatens to shut off the gas pipes because of some political disagreement for example, that's a reason to reduce your reliance on them, not do what they say.We are about to bung a load of arms to the Saudi's aren't we? They fit the first sentence of your post.
I have never thought it this way but you are correct.Brexit has turned us into the spitroasted bitch of USA and China. We'd better get used to it.
Fucked up bad someone needs to lose there job over this. Why did this happen? What do the fuckers at GCHQ do? Or do they think it is safe?I really don't understand why the British government are allowing this company to have a hand in the implementation of the UK 5G network.
The government said after Tuesday’s meeting of its National Security Council that it is taking some steps that will allow it “to mitigate the potential risk posed by the supply chain and to combat the range of threats, whether cyber criminals, or state sponsored attacks.”
That's all well and good but why even let them anywhere near this system.
Why risk future cyber attacks when you don't have to, and it's not a good start to trading relationships with the USA and Australia.
I'm bemused.
Spying on us? The yanks have been doing it since the 40's.1. China is not the enemy. To be honest I am not sure who I am more uncomfortable spying on us, the Chinese or the Americans!
2. I fail to see how much of a serious threat it is, having Huawei kit anyway. I think it would be very difficult for them to intercept and "listen" to traffic at all, let alone without us detecting it.
3. We've nothing to hide.
4. We need a top rate 5G infrastructure at the best possible prices, and that means Huawei.
Probably didn't look much past "it's cheaper" as an argument tbh. It's definitely not cheaper to rip it all out.Fucked up bad someone needs to lose there job over this. Why did this happen? What do the fuckers at GCHQ do? Or do they think it is safe?
How much of the tech and other equipment at GCHQ was made in China? Maybe that Morphy Richards kettle in the kitchen is listening in to conversations.I have never thought it this way but you are correct.
Fucked up bad someone needs to lose there job over this. Why did this happen? What do the fuckers at GCHQ do? Or do they think it is safe?
Well, as I’ve said, when America said no initially, we still did it.Who said I didn’t think it was the right thing?
I’m questioning the reason for it.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say there but China has also launched a cyber attack against Australia, which is another escalation against our allies.China is upsetting most of the countries in the region with its aggressive attitude. The only way it can be curtailed or made to listen is if Washington and Brussels work together, which they won’t do. Partly because of a Trump but also because countries like Germany have too much trade and investment with China. There is some sign that EU countries are prepared to tackle some of the issues with China but I think it will fall well short.
Australia spoke out over Covid 19 which is why they got hit with the latest tariffs. Props for them for doing so as they were warned what would happen. China’s actions are short sighted and counter productive.
The UK is in a tough spot given relations with China are likely to go in the freezer, and our relations with Europe are likely to be chilly as well and the US is melting down over Covid. If we want to put pressure on China we need allies, but our influence in this region is non existent and siding with the Aussies isn’t going to cut it. Better bet would be India who are also having problems with China and are also a Commonwealth country. China couldn’t give a shit about Australia, India is more problematic for them.
Personally I think Europe should be pooling resource on tech capacity including 5g and keeping it ‘in house’ as much as possible, especially if you consider the security aspects. While I have some sympathy for ditching Huawei it’s a fact that a lot of their tech is already embedded in our telecommunications and replacing that and trying to advance 5g is going to be expensive, problematic and leave us behind other countries. I haven’t seen what the alternative proposals are but with everything else going on I have doubts about the capacity of the UK state to manage all the issues that are piling up.
Fantastic news that Huwawei is banned from our 5G network. This bodes well for the security of our network going forward. I hope further sanctions are rolled out in reaction to China's handling of Covid. Let's have some balls and move contracts and production to other countries such as Vietnam, Thailand and Taiwan.
Believe it or not, they are indirectly funded by the state. China is pumping millions in to businesses such as alibaba to compete with the likes of Amazon in the west.
I'm pretty sure the main payment gateway is state funded so they can track movements and payments.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say there but China has also launched a cyber attack against Australia, which is another escalation against our allies.
I agree about India, the Commonwealth is going to be very important to us following Brexit and we should side with them.
So to be clear you want the UK to levy sanctions against China, while simultaneously raising trade barriers and costs with the EU, and all of this during a pandemic which has flattened our economy?
Well it’s a bold move I guess.
Yes they have, however what are we going to do about it? Answer, not a lot. Tory MP Tugendhat is calling for a new foreign policy and new allies to combat China. Well who exactly? Australia has a third of its export trade tied up with China and is in China’s backyard so at the end of the day what is it going to do? Knacker it’s economy by picking a full on fight with China? Join in sanctions? All this during a pandemic?
India is more viable but then their nationalist leaders are heading down the China route in its treatment of Muslims. Their spat with China is more about the two newest big boys on the block flexing their muscles.
EU is out for obvious reasons and can’t see them getting too invested in fighting China anyway and the US has been fighting a trade war with China which has got them nowhere and is currently getting eaten alive by Covid.
So exactly what the hell are we going to do apart from committing ourselves to ripping out existing tech over the next seven years to keep some Tory MPs happy? And where does this leave the 5g roll out given in a pandemic hit economy investing in tech would seem crucial?
To be clear, I didn't want to be out of the EU.
Given China is notorious for spying on it's own citizens through various channels such as telecom and payment transactions it's vital that we have a trusted mobile infrastructure.
Agreed. Europe should take it ‘in house’ and develop a regional based tech infrastructure rather than relying on China or the US. Nokia and Ericsson have intimated they can do it. Germany seem keen on keeping in with China though. We should be looking at working with regional partners in Europe and pushing for this, just as we should be pushing for a European defence policy and presence.
The EU, India and US need to be our key allies here and we need to stick up for the Commonwealth where we can.
The Empire 2.0 project with close ties to the Commonwealth is probably our best chance of making Brexit a success.
As pissed off with negotiations as both sides are with Brexit, if push came to shove we’d have each other’s backs against trouble from the East.
The US is still the most powerful nation on earth and COVID-19 won’t be around forever, the worst is on the US now and they’ll come out of the other side okay.
I also don’t believe any comms coming out of China, they’re likely still suffering too.
This 5G decision is the right one and is about 6 months too late.
To say the Chinese state is one to be wary of would be a huge understatement.