Totally. I joined the Labour Party last year. I can tell you with full confidence they can't organise a piss up in a brewery. The meetings I attend are dominated by left wing socialism and hating the Blairities. They love Corbyn and believe the election was lost because of the media and Brexit. In my opinon Corbyn was a bigger factor but to the point made the media were / are massively against Corbyn and thisnisna big factor.
Overall Labour are a mess, full of infighting and it's a tragedy because the Tories are a shambles and there for the taking.
Lastly, Corbyn should naever have agreed to the general election. He should have let the Tories deal with Brexit but no he believed he had the votes. So. Incompetent.
Whilst there can be no doubt that Brexit was a big issue in the last election, I'd also make the following observations:I'm not blaming Labour's defeat on media bias, Brexit and Corbyn were the main reasons. The media's influence in politics and public opinion could have it's own thread (like in the main City forum).
Totally. I joined the Labour Party last year. I can tell you with full confidence they can't organise a piss up in a brewery. The meetings I attend are dominated by left wing socialism and hating the Blairities. They love Corbyn and believe the election was lost because of the media and Brexit. In my opinon Corbyn was a bigger factor but to the point made the media were / are massively against Corbyn and thisnisna big factor.
Overall Labour are a mess, full of infighting and it's a tragedy because the Tories are a shambles and there for the taking.
Lastly, Corbyn should naever have agreed to the general election. He should have let the Tories deal with Brexit but no he believed he had the votes. So. Incompetent.
In that context, nice to see RLB giving Corbyn 10/10 and saying there was nothing wrong in the manifesto. Hardly surprising I suppose, given the deluded mare had a large hand in formulating it.Fully agree. Corbyn got played, the balance of opposition MPs new exactly what was going on but they didn't quite have the numbers to fight the Tories and the deluded Corbynites (who are a very small number in terms of MPs). The tories were gaming for a crunch brexit election and the Corbynites genuinely thought they would win because it was Corbyn's destiny. How wrong they were - it was always going to be dominated by Johnson and his BS Brexit propaganda.
She's doing a great job imho and nailed on for my vote.In that context, nice to see RLB giving Corbyn 10/10 and saying there was nothing wrong in the manifesto. Hardly surprising I suppose, given the deluded mare had a large hand in formulating it.
Well she'd get mine as well. £250 win at the bookies and another 10 years of not having to worry about the possibility of a Labour government. Heaven :-)She's doing a great job imho and nailed on for my vote.
I think Corbyn had a point in retrospect.
I still don’t see that as them being our enemy.
There’s little if no evidence in this, he may well have been but there’s not the evidence to suggest it’s true.
Conservative social values. Attlee and Bevan were more British than most of the current Conservative Party and it would shock the modern hysterical liberals, who call themselves after them on Twitter, to learn their real social views - such as support for the death penalty.
I believe at the time he did, he felt the government were jumping to conclusions but having then seen the report came to those same conclusions.
They're actions to me show them to be hostile to us. They're is also plenty evidence on Johnson and his liaisons, I wouldn't have stated it otherwise. I think we've come to an impasse on these points so instead of going around in circles, I acknowledge your opinions despite disagreeing with them.
I'm interested to know what you mean by Conservative Social Values and also what makes somebody more British than someone else? As for Attlee and Bevan's support for the Death Penalty, they were very much men of their time.
Therein lies Labour's problem.She's doing a great job imho and nailed on for my vote.
Whilst there can be no doubt that Brexit was a big issue in the last election, I'd also make the following observations:
1. Labour's pitiful position on Brexit - which certainly caused them to lose many votes and seats - was ultimately the responsibility of Corbyn.
2. Had Brexit not even been an issue during the campaign, Labour would still not have won.
3. Had Brexit not even been an issue during the campaign and Corbyn was not the leader, Labour may very well have won.
The election defeat is down to Corbyn. His politics and policies, his failure to convincingly deal with anti-semitism, his life-long siding up to enemies of the UK and various other undesirable traits. The GE result was a resounding rejection of Corbyn and Corbynism.
Can't argue with any that.
I personally found their Brexit position to be the correct and sensible option (negotiate a deal and then put it back to the public) but can understand with emotions running high on Brexit that didn't appeal to many. It was just amateur hour at the time in the party.
@ROCKET80 thread must have been pulled I can’t find it.
I’m a bit knackered and cannot be bothered giving you war and peace but to just to give you an overview:
Now I’m sure you’ve got further questions but please bear in mind I have gone over this in much more detail and many posters of leftist persuasion have already attacked me for it.
The rather large fly in that Brexit policy ointment was the bit whereby Corbyn would negotiate a deal but not recommend it to the electorate whilst most of the shadow cabinet said in the election campaign that they would back Remain in any circumstances anyway. Does that suggest a hard headed negotiation or just a token effort?
The electorate decided it was a token effort..
True like Corbyn I will gladly vote for them in the Labour leadership but would chew my own leg off before voting for then in a General Election.Therein lies Labour's problem.
It's not your approval Labour needs to canvass if they want any chance of governing the country.
No need to apologise, I dip in and out of the forum/threads. So I apologise for making you repeat yourself.
They'll be no attacks from me (at least I'll try and that's a start), I think this is where both sides of the debate need to get better, we may have differing opinions, what we need to do is to try to understand them and finding a middle ground to settle on...The issue with that is does it really take us anywhere?
Tougher on crime, especially drugs - I'm all for tougher on the causes of crime. I think the war on drugs has been lost, punishing users and small time dealers has got us nowhere. Tougher sentences for horrific crimes I can get on board with, but not the death penalty.
Police officers to patrol again - Nothing wrong with that, having the police on the beat and known in the community I think works.
Tougher on immigration - This is the hot topic, that can gets emotional quickly. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the UKs immigration policy before this current Government came into power. I think there is a complete lack of understanding around immigration and the processes of it. That is no fault of anyone's as how often do indigenous people have to go through the process? Discussions into why people believe immigration is an issue has to be had (and without branding people racist, even if they are) getting examples then research being done into it. If the results back up their assumptions then devise a plan to deal with it, if it doesn't find a way to better communicate why what they believe to be true isn't.
Protection of the countryside - Something I'm sure most would agree on.
A total reform of the education system - I'm unsure what that looks like to you, what you think is currently wrong with it nor your experiences. I know very little about how kids are taught compared to how I was, I know some teachers and some that have stepped away due to the and stress involved, not from teaching but other demands. Would be good to hear from any teachers on this forum about what works well and what needs changing.
British values added to curriculum - British values could mean different things to different people. A real warts and all focus on British history and workings of British government would be good.
Policies focused on the family unit - Again open to interpretation. More help for families such as free day care would be a great start.
Better support for maternity - Everyone should agree with this, for both parents. We can look towards Finland for a good example,
Policies focused on the community - Agree with this, making communities safer, more welcoming and working together surely benefits everyone, as long as their is acceptance of diversity...It should hep with that acceptance.
Protection of positive Christian values - I don't know what Christian values are under threat that they need protecting. I'm firmly anti-religion anyway and if I had my way would get rid of all faith schools (I went to Catholic schools). I understand religion is important to some people but if those values, Christian or otherwise, go against what we deem to be British Values, then they take a back seat.
End to identity politics - Agree with this, we're all complicated individuals that can't be sorted into just one box - I might be what some deem to be a 'hysterical liberal' sometimes but I think I've shown with my responses to your social conservatism that we can agree on things and find some common ground in other areas.
The main thing for me is not accepting simple answers to complicated solutions from any of our elected leaders or opposition. The media should provide more scrutiny over politicians plans to deliver what they are promising and asking how they have come to the conclusion and seeking non partisan experts in those fields to review and offer their opinions should be the norm. For us as people is to try to understand the political opinions of others, better questioning and debate.
We're all susceptible to making statements that are either uncouth or inflammatory. We get emotional over things we passionately believe in and become frustrated when others do not see our way is right. We always will.
So to finish on something that unites us all on this forum....Liverpool fans are c**ts!
What are British values and how do they differ from, say, French, Italian, Irish, Indian, Australian values?@ROCKET80 thread must have been pulled I can’t find it.
I’m a bit knackered and cannot be bothered giving you war and peace but to just to give you an overview:
Tougher on crime, especially drugs
Police officers to patrol again
Tougher on immigration
Protection of the countryside
A total reform of the education system
British values added to curriculum
Policies focused on the family unit
Better support for maternity
Policies focused on the community
Protection of positive Christian values
End to identity politics
Now I’m sure you’ve got further questions but please bear in mind I have gone over this in much more detail and many posters of leftist persuasion have already attacked me for it.
So we have in your view a very left Labour party, and undoubtedly we have a very right wing conservative party. So what do you choose?True like Corbyn I will gladly vote for them in the Labour leadership but would chew my own leg off before voting for then in a General Election.
Whilst I would vote for a left of Centre Labour candidate in an Election I am aware that is an anathema for the left wing currently ruling the Labour Party.
So like many others I will continue to vote Tory for the foreseeable future.
So we have in your view a very left Labour party, and undoubtedly we have a very right wing conservative party. So what do you choose?
The Tories. This suggests to me that you are indeed a Tory.
What are British values and how do they differ from, say, French, Italian, Irish, Indian, Australian values?