UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[George Hannah]

If they have a spare few minutes they can also discuss the 39 Juventus fans that never made it home from a game.

Conjectures & Refutations - maybe it's time that title was revived. The Dippers really deserve what will engulf them when our ban is overturned - there will be no hiding place.

 

[paulchapo]

Conjectures & Refutations - maybe it's time that title was revived. The Dippers really deserve what will engulf them when our ban is overturned - there will be no hiding place.

It's Karma, people in glass houses and all that. None of them are squeaky clean and when you throw a pebble in water the ripples spread far and wide. I think a few are going to feel the effect of throwing that pebble.

 

[George Hannah]

It's Karma, people in glass houses and all that. None of them are squeaky clean and when you throw a pebble in water the ripples spread far and wide. I think a few are going to feel the effect of throwing that pebble.

They have unleashed the whirlwind. It'll be biblical!!! :)
(sorry about the mixed metaphors)

 

[paulchapo]

They have unleashed the whirlwind. It'll be biblical!!! :)
(sorry about the mixed metaphors)

I'm sure in the club's delving and evidence gathering we have uncovered some very interesting titbits. Letting a few slip is a warning shot across the bows. Carry on and we'll really blow you out of the water.

 

[Proy]

There are, but we have to meet financial criteria if I'm right? So they could say if the finances we received were propped up by direct owner payment, then we failed. I think?

The premier league have their own interpretation and it is far less stringent.

They don’t look at where money is coming from in the same way as UEFA do, they are more concerned with an operating loss. PL clubs can’t make more than a £105 million loss and anything between £15 and £105 million has to be guaranteed by the owner. How that is guaranteed from the PL perspective is not really something they give a shit about.

Besides, we have posted profit the last 2 seasons and the loss on the accounts UEFA were trying to stitch us with were nowhere near the PL threshold.

If the PL want to get us for something it won’t be through their current process, it will be fudged.

Just like UEFA have done.

 

[domalino]

Crafton is both Jewish and gay and Fury has made both homophobic and antisemitic remarks. That doesn't mean people can't see the error of their ways of course.

Sadly I'm blocked by Baz after he jumped into a thread I was involved in the other night, when he'd clearly had a few drinks too many. Which is quite a common occurrence I'm told.

Fury is an interesting case because he's spoken about the remarks he made - racist, homophobic and misogynistic - at quite a lot of length in his autobiography. He says he made them because being a gypsy forced him in the role of outsider through other people's racism and he derived his sporting ambition from that feeling, and then as his career grew he felt he had to keep making increasingly controversial and angry remarks to ostracise himself and keep up the character he had to play.

And obviously he was off his face half the time and spiralling into a mental health crisis and the ultra religious bullshit was something to cling on to.

But he's never actually apologised for the remarks or said that he doesn't agree with them, and until he does, I just can't support him, even though I'd like to because of everything else he's done.

I suspect he does believe the things he said and just regrets saying them out loud.

 

[paulchapo]

The premier league have their own interpretation and it is far less stringent.

They don’t look at where money is coming from in the same way as UEFA do, they are more concerned with an operating loss. PL clubs can’t make more than a £105 million loss and anything between £15 and £105 million has to be guaranteed by the owner. How that is guaranteed from the PL perspective is not really something they give a shit about.

Besides, we have posted profit the last 2 seasons and the loss on the accounts UEFA were trying to stitch us with were nowhere near the PL threshold.

If the PL want to get us for something it won’t be through their current process, it will be fudged.

Just like UEFA have done.

Cheers, so much stuff out there I can't be bothered to read it all it drives you nuts.

 

[cleavers]

Fury is an interesting case because he's spoken about the remarks he made - racist, homophobic and misogynistic - at quite a lot of length in his autobiography. He says he made them because being a gypsy forced him in the role of outsider through other people's racism and he derived his sporting ambition from that feeling, and then as his career grew he felt he had to keep making increasingly controversial and angry remarks to ostracise himself and keep up the character he had to play.

And obviously he was off his face half the time and spiralling into a mental health crisis and the ultra religious bullshit was something to cling on to.

But he's never actually apologised for the remarks or said that he doesn't agree with them, and until he does, I just can't support him, even though I'd like to because of everything else he's done.

I suspect he does believe the things he said and just regrets saying them out loud.

Can we leave the Fury debate for the boxing thread please, there's enough pages in this one as it is, so lets keep it to City/uefa/ffp :)

 

[meltonblue]

The irrefutable proof will be the clubs financial records. This would have been contained somewhere in the 200 page dossier we had put together for our defence. Something UEFA decided not to look at.

What they looked at, were stolen/hacked emails which they proceeded to take out of context. They used that as a negotiation and offered a deal, like the bully’s they are and assuming we would take one.

We didn’t. We said fuck off. See you in court, where we will be bringing the 200 page document that you didn’t want to see.

They then threw their toys out the pram and made, what will consequentially be, an absolutely fucking horrendous decision that is going to haunt them for many, many years.

That’s my concern to be honest. If we’ve already submitted what we considered to be the irrefutable proof, then it clearly wasn’t considered irrefutable and the CFCB would have definitely looked at it.

Personally, I want to know when we say the emails were taken out of context, what we fully mean by that. I don’t think we’ll ever find out though, I think the argument at CAS will be more around the verdict being inadmissible anyway.

 

[Proy]

Cheers, so much stuff out there I can't be bothered to read it all it drives you nuts.

You are welcome.

There are 2 critical things to remember about FFP and it’s implications for Manchester City.

The first is the process and ethos of FFP itself. It is not conducive to financial fair play, despite being called what it is. It is by design, a process to stop external investment from people and places with lots and lots of money. The Middle East is a great example. UEFA see this as a threat to their main revenue streams and will do whatever it takes to stop it. Nobody adjudicates UEFA and until a football club stands up and challenges the policy properly in a real court, then they can bend, move and change as they see fit. Don’t be fooled by their internal arbitration process, it is jobs for the boys and designed only to protect themselves. Have a look at some at some of the names/people in their adjudicatory chamber. It’s quite the eye opener.

The second part, and Prestwhich Blue has put out some info on this not so long back, is that we have t actually failed FFP at all. The bloated sponsorship is actually all present and correct and meets their own stupid criteria. Even if we didn’t, the deal they are going after was not exacerbated to the extent of the punishment. It wasn’t in line with what we are accused which just goes to show how determined they are to stop us.

At the end of the day, this is all very simple. There is an element of Qatar vs Abu Dhabi, but essentially the amount of cash flow coming out of that region causes UEFA a major problem. They cut a deal with Qatar, see PSG and some of their extortionate sponsorship value and then have a look at who brokered it. They want to do that with our side, but we said fuck off and they can’t get their sticky fingers in the pot so they are just trying to stop it instead.

 

[George Hannah]

You are welcome.

There are 2 critical things to remember about FFP and it’s implications for Manchester City.

The first is the process and ethos of FFP itself. It is not conducive to financial fair play, despite being called what it is. It is by design, a process to stop external investment from people and places with lots and lots of money. The Middle East is a great example. UEFA see this as a threat to their main revenue streams and will do whatever it takes to stop it. Nobody adjudicates UEFA and until a football club stands up and challenges the policy properly in a real court, then they can bend, move and change as they see fit. Don’t be fooled by their internal arbitration process, it is jobs for the boys and designed only to protect themselves. Have a look at some at some of the names/people in their adjudicatory chamber. It’s quite the eye opener.

The second part, and Prestwhich Blue has put out some info on this not so long back, is that we have t actually failed FFP at all. The bloated sponsorship is actually all present and correct and meets their own stupid criteria. Even if we didn’t, the deal they are going after was not exacerbated to the extent of the punishment. It wasn’t in line with what we are accused which just goes to show how determined they are to stop us.

At the end of the day, this is all very simple. There is an element of Qatar vs Abu Dhabi, but essentially the amount of cash flow coming out of that region causes UEFA a major problem. They cut a deal with Qatar, see PSG and some of their extortionate sponsorship value and then have a look at who brokered it. They want to do that with our side, but we said fuck off and they can’t get their sticky fingers in the pot so they are just trying to stop it instead.

That's three things at least ;)

 

[paulchapo]

You are welcome.

There are 2 critical things to remember about FFP and it’s implications for Manchester City.

The first is the process and ethos of FFP itself. It is not conducive to financial fair play, despite being called what it is. It is by design, a process to stop external investment from people and places with lots and lots of money. The Middle East is a great example. UEFA see this as a threat to their main revenue streams and will do whatever it takes to stop it. Nobody adjudicates UEFA and until a football club stands up and challenges the policy properly in a real court, then they can bend, move and change as they see fit. Don’t be fooled by their internal arbitration process, it is jobs for the boys and designed only to protect themselves. Have a look at some at some of the names/people in their adjudicatory chamber. It’s quite the eye opener.

The second part, and Prestwhich Blue has put out some info on this not so long back, is that we have t actually failed FFP at all. The bloated sponsorship is actually all present and correct and meets their own stupid criteria. Even if we didn’t, the deal they are going after was not exacerbated to the extent of the punishment. It wasn’t in line with what we are accused which just goes to show how determined they are to stop us.

At the end of the day, this is all very simple. There is an element of Qatar vs Abu Dhabi, but essentially the amount of cash flow coming out of that region causes UEFA a major problem. They cut a deal with Qatar, see PSG and some of their extortionate sponsorship value and then have a look at who brokered it. They want to do that with our side, but we said fuck off and they can’t get their sticky fingers in the pot so they are just trying to stop it instead.

Great piece of writing. I knew some of those facts but you put it across well.

Let's hope we put this to bed once and for all.

 

[Proy]

Great piece of writing. I knew some of those facts but you put it across well.

Let's hope we put this to bed once and for all.

One other point from that post, and I apologise, there isn’t any bloated sponsorship, I was confusing myself with PSG.

The allegation is that the money didn’t come from the place we say it did. I’m pretty sure it was fair market value.

Somebody more clued up than me will be able to put me straight.

 

[Grassland Blue]

I disagree we will fight on a technicality. City have said that we have irrefutable evidence that we are innocent.

We want to prove our innocence and not just get off. We could have done a deal, it seems, but we would be forever tainted if we did. We want to clear our name.

Id love access to his servers to see the real details.

Ask a dipper

Those two identical incidents overseen by Taylor this season - Son straight red.... Maguire no action. A ridiculous decision backed in 6 seconds by Shockley Park !

Also the main man in Shockley park was a rag...

 

[Grassland Blue]

How are we going to use the Liverpool stuff ?

Un related incidents governed by different bodies

But a good example of different treatment of existing settlements by footballing bodies.

Was anyone at the Premier League involved in the UEFA decision ?

I do like the idea of smearing Liverpool tho

It's going to happen...

 

[Proy]

That’s my concern to be honest. If we’ve already submitted what we considered to be the irrefutable proof, then it clearly wasn’t considered irrefutable and the CFCB would have definitely looked at it.

Personally, I want to know when we say the emails were taken out of context, what we fully mean by that. I don’t think we’ll ever find out though, I think the argument at CAS will be more around the verdict being inadmissible anyway.

It can’t be considered irrefutable if they refused to look at it.

They built, made and hung their entire case on stolen emails.

I would also like to see those emails.

The thing with an email, it’s all about context. It won’t prove a thing as long as the books say otherwise.

That UEFA were trying to broker a deal whilst putting their whole investigation on hacked emails, tells me they were shitting it.

I genuinely don’t think they expected us to say fuck off. They assumed we would take a deal.

The velocity of the punishment is akin to the reaction of a petulant teenager.

 

[Grassland Blue]

If City did except at small ban it would make our owners look silly wont it .......after saying they havent done anything wrong . I wouldnt take a punishment for something I hadnt done and I hope our owners feel the same

It's gone too far now.
City won't back down.

 

[Shirley]

Point me at any link to suggest that, I've never seen one, other than dipper/rag reporters/fans suggesting it.

Written by a City fan, allegedly!

Edit: 2563 Buddhist calendar (2020)


Feb 15, 2563 BE · The Premier League announced last March that it had begun an investigation into City's affairs, releasing a statement which appeared to cover all the areas in which the defending champions had been accused of wrongdoing by the German magazine Der Spiegel, based on “leaks” of internal emails which City said had been hacked.

Der Spiegel and other publications with access to the same emails also accused City of making an irregular payment to the agent of Jadon Sancho when he was a 14-year-old player in the club’s youth system, and of being involved in a “third-party ownership” player investment fund. City have denied any wrongdoing. The Premier League came under pressure, reportedly from other major clubs, to mount its own investigation after the CFCB announced last March that it was investigating the FFP allegations.

 

[blueju]

Considering we have issued a statement with the clear message that we have done absolutely nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, Our choice of legal representation is more important to stop UEFA trying to tie us up in knots and make us still appear guilty

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

Written by a City fan, allegedly!

Edit: 2563 Buddhist calendar (2020)


Feb 15, 2563 BE · The Premier League announced last March that it had begun an investigation into City's affairs, releasing a statement which appeared to cover all the areas in which the defending champions had been accused of wrongdoing by the German magazine Der Spiegel, based on “leaks” of internal emails which City said had been hacked.

Der Spiegel and other publications with access to the same emails also accused City of making an irregular payment to the agent of Jadon Sancho when he was a 14-year-old player in the club’s youth system, and of being involved in a “third-party ownership” player investment fund. City have denied any wrongdoing. The Premier League came under pressure, reportedly from other major clubs, to mount its own investigation after the CFCB announced last March that it was investigating the FFP allegations.

we were cleared over the sancho bit last year