UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

What do you think will be the outcome of the CAS hearing?

  • Two-year ban upheld

    Votes: 197 13.1%

  • Ban reduced to one year

    Votes: 422 28.2%

  • Ban overturned and City exonerated

    Votes: 815 54.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 65 4.3%
  • Total voters
    1,499
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Proy said:
It can’t be considered irrefutable if they refused to look at it.

They built, made and hung their entire case on stolen emails.

I would also like to see those emails.

The thing with an email, it’s all about context. It won’t prove a thing as long as the books say otherwise.

That UEFA were trying to broker a deal whilst putting their whole investigation on hacked emails, tells me they were shitting it.

I genuinely don’t think they expected us to say fuck off. They assumed we would take a deal.

The velocity of the punishment is akin to the reaction of a petulant teenager.
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This is from a email I received from an employee of Manchester City in 2011


This email is from Manchester City Football Club, (Company Reg No. 40946).
Etihad Stadium, Etihad Campus, Manchester, M11 3FF

This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, copy, print or distribute this e-mail or attachments. If you have received it in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of the message and any attachments. The view of the author may not necessarily reflect those of the Company. MCFC makes no representation or warranty as to the absence of viruses in this e-mail or any attachments.

I doubt that stolen hacked emails will be admissible and that rider if on the mail also precludes it

Interestingly all the stolen hacked emails that Der Spiegel published had the bottom half exclude

https://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussba...ostrecke-a293d1c1-0001-0002-0000-000000167278
 
George Hannah said:
One might have wished for a more supportive piece. He doesn't mention the corrupt change of rules which led to our first FFP sanction nor the US investigation cited by PB showing our sponsors support was not from SM.
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Are u referring the change with respect to the toolkit. Does mention that. Many tweets in the thread , its there
 
razman said:
The definitive thread as always from Swiss Ramble. Little or anything to argue with in the entire thing.



Would recommend all of u on this thread to read it. ( a bit late longish but worth it)
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Agreed, this punishment comes at a time when we're actually getting our finances in a really strong position. Fines and 2 year bans not only damage us as club, but probably mean we fail future FFP measures unless we sell our best players.

I particulary like the part about our earning being affected by the co-efficient payment. We got 24m and United 31m despite missing a few seasons of CL (based on former glories)... if that isn't a cartel, I don't know what is. United for the record will have finished in the top 3 ONCE in the last 7 seasons. Yet they are probably getting enough payments from a UEFA pot that keeps the likes of Everton, Spurs, Sheffield, Wolves at arms length.
 
razman said:
Are u referring the change with respect to the toolkit. Does mention that. Many tweets in the thread , its there
Click to expand...

I agree - he mentions it specifically.

SwissRamble isn't likely to get into the politics directly - he's very good at the economics/numbers side of things, and lays out comparative examples. Seems quite reasonable.
 
So basically, they found us guilty because they "wanted" to find us guilty.
They couldn't get the info they (and other interested parties) wanted, so stated we didn't cooperate.
Penalise us knowing we would have to release sensitive information for our defence.
Whatever happens they know full well it damages us now and in the future.
This all in the knowledge that when we are cleared of any wrongdoing, they won't face ANY sanctions.
Seems like a fair system...

One question, how do you prove beyond doubt the hacked emails are genuine and unedited to use in an enquiry or court case?
 
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Manchester1894 said:
Agreed, this punishment comes at a time when we're actually getting our finances in a really strong position. Fines and 2 year bans not only damage us as club, but probably mean we fail future FFP measures unless we sell our best players.

I particulary like the part about our earning being affected by the co-efficient payment. We got 24m and United 31m despite missing a few seasons of CL (based on former glories)... if that isn't a cartel, I don't know what is. United for the record will have finished in the top 3 ONCE in the last 7 seasons. Yet they are probably getting enough payments from a UEFA pot that keeps the likes of Everton, Spurs, Sheffield, Wolves at arms length.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, that's only one part of the payment from UEFA TV money.
It's complicated.
From memory (and this can definitely be written more clearly!). 30% of CL TV income is now split based on a 10 year record, with title-winning coefficients on top. Utd have to be in the CL group stage to benefit from CL money (but there is a lesser EL version, and they got lots of ranking points for winning the EL), and have 2 CL wins in the most highly rated period. City have a solitary 1 coefficient point from winning the CWC a long time ago. Utd are about 6th overall on the 'history' points bonus - Real Madrid are obviously top.

Additionally, one chunk is split 40/30/20/10% to the top 4. Then there is 'prize' money for progress/wins. I think these are separate and coefficient-free.
 
the thing is with emails its so easy to get the wrong end of the stick. I would get an email some senior management and would be steaming with what it said, I would fire one back straight away, but it 9 times out 10 I had read the email, and taken it the wrong way ! You could read the email as a moan or a complaint when in fact it just a idea. I always use t he 24hr rule and reply to them later. Because if I am having a bad day the email in my mind will be read in a negative way when it wasn't meant to be !.

Its so easy to take emails out of context.
 
KS55 said:
Hacking = FA. PL had nothing to say about that.
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But they should have because it's in the PL's own charter:

"We will ensure that our clubs behave with the upmost good faith and honesty to each other"

https://www.premierleague.com/about

"Any serious breach of the Rule Book results in an independent three-person tribunal sitting to hear the case, ascertain guilt and set the punishment, which can range from fines to points deductions and, in extreme cases, expulsion from the competition (this has never happened in the history of the Premier League)."
 
fulabeer said:
So basically, they found us guilty because the "wanted" to find us guilty.
They couldn't get the info they (and other interested parties) wanted, so stated we didn't cooperate.
Penalise us knowing we would have to release sensitive information for our defence.
Whatever happens they know full well it damages us now and in the future.
This all in the knowledge that when we are cleared of any wrongdoing, they won't face ANY sanctions.
Seems like a fair system...

One question, how do you prove beyond doubt the hacked emails are genuine and unedited to use in an enquiry or court case?
Click to expand...

what makes you think they wont face ANY sanctions ? City might take UEFA to court for lost of earns etc
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Just to be clear, that's only one part of the payment from UEFA TV money.
It's complicated.
From memory (and this can definitely be written more clearly!). 30% of CL TV income is now split based on a 10 year record, with title-winning coefficients on top. Utd have to be in the CL group stage to benefit from CL money (but there is a lesser EL version, and they got lots of ranking points for winning the EL), and have 2 CL wins in the most highly rated period. City have a solitary 1 coefficient point from winning the CWC a long time ago. Utd are about 6th overall on the 'history' points bonus - Real Madrid are obviously top.

Additionally, one chunk is split 40/30/20/10% to the top 4. Then there is 'prize' money for progress/wins. I think these are separate and coefficient-free.
Click to expand...

Breakdown shown here is useful:

 
George Hannah said:
One might have wished for a more openly supportive piece. He doesn't mention the corrupt change of rules which led to our first FFP sanction nor the US investigation cited by PB showing our sponsors' support was not from SM.
Click to expand...
BTW why would he make it more openly supportive anyway, he's not a City fan as far as I'm aware. We need more balanced pieces like this to counterpoint the negative content in the media, having obviously pro City bits do not do us any good.
 
Proy said:
The thing with an email, it’s all about context. It won’t prove a thing as long as the books say otherwise.

That UEFA were trying to broker a deal whilst putting their whole investigation on hacked emails, tells me they were shitting it.

I genuinely don’t think they expected us to say fuck off. They assumed we would take a deal.

The velocity of the punishment is akin to the reaction of a petulant teenager.
Click to expand...

The key thing with the emails for me is that they're not an official record.

I emailed my co-workers that I'd go to some stupid drinks thing next week, but I probably won't go. We frequently discuss how we should do things only to change those plans in face to face meetings or when someone else gets involved.

Saying "ADUG should pay the money" doesn't mean ADUG did pay the money.

Nothing confirms this more than the fact we already know ADUG didn't pay it! The Ex Council did.
 
Centurions said:
BTW why would he make it more openly supportive anyway, he's not a City fan as far as I'm aware. We need more balanced pieces like this to counterpoint the negative content in the media, having obviously pro City bits do not do us any good.
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Maybe not a fan but I think he is genuinely pro City in this contest. He also has contacts inside UEFA which no doubt need to be taken into account as the end game approaches.
 
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