COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[willipp]

It’s absolutely fucking ludicrous to think these experts aren’t worth their salt and it’s absolutely fucking ludicrous to think that Johnson isn’t acting in the best interests of the country.

With this in mind, why don’t the internet experts try listening?

Why are we taking such a different approach then to the vast majority of the world? Do we have better scientists than china? USA? Norway? I very much doubt it as i imagine they are all very capable. Then why are we so different?

 

[Renneronline]

How people can talk how they do over this strategy of seemingly accepting 500,000 extra deaths as being good (for the herd)...is frightening. So it's OK to hold a beloved one whose life has been dismissed out of hand, 'your death is all for the part of the greater good, just ebb away we'll be fine now and thanks'.... ah don't get too personal, the odds of it actually happening to a loved one of yours is pretty remote...that's Ok then. Those at the top of the tree will be provided for and looked after, those suffocating on their own for the sake of the greater good is ...? You call it what you want, I'll say it as it is as I see things in my world view, immoral.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The signs from China are very good. There's no indication yet that it is bouncing back.

I change my mind every 5 minutes. I am just shutting up now. The stats suggests overwhelmingly that China is the way to go. The science basically zero immunity suggests phased build-up of immunity is the way to go. Bottom-line is that if China keeps its cities virus free for some time after a major infection then we should all copy them.

At first they said that nly China could do that because it was a repressive society but when yu are faced with a worst case scenario you do what you have to do. Every Western society will take on whatever it takes now. I am scared. I have stuff to do but I can't do it because I keep thinking about this and looking at all the data that comes through from every country.

Absolutely agreed and in the same boat.

FWIW, I am convinced China is the way to go, irrespective of subsequent events. If they have more cases cropping up around China they now know how to deal with it before it becomes calamitous again. What we need to do is buy ourselves a whole year with the absolute minimum of cases occurring before a vaccine is ready, and the absolute maximum amount of time ramp up ICU capacity. Of course we cannot weld doors shut but we can close down everything that can reasonably be closed down. We could do what italy are doing now, whilst we have the benefit of far, far fewer cases.

Our approach really does seem to be "bring it on, and we'll do our best".

 

[PragueBlue]

I am very very impressed that China managed to restrict it to one City. That does to me suggest that there is considerable hope that if a society forces a total lockdown and stops social contact, virus levels can drop so low that it wont come back. China is the experiment that the world will watch now.

It most likely will come back though unless they stay in lockdown until a vaccine is found.

 

[Ban-jani]

Why?

And they did speak in general at how alarmed they were that governments aren’t doing enough. But you’ll ignore that as you currently seem to have some sort of man crush for Boris.

Man crush? Have you seen the bloke?

Swap the word man crush for me just thinking he’s doing the right thing in this scenario.

Generalised, past WHO statements isn’t what we should be basing our strategy on.

 

[cibaman]

The signs from China are very good. There's no indication yet that it is bouncing back.

I change my mind every 5 minutes. I am just shutting up now. The stats suggests overwhelmingly that China is the way to go. The science basically zero immunity suggests phased build-up of immunity is the way to go. Bottom-line is that if China keeps its cities virus free for some time after a major infection then we should all copy them.

At first they said that nly China could do that because it was a repressive society but when yu are faced with a worst case scenario you do what you have to do. Every Western society will take on whatever it takes now. I am scared. I have stuff to do but I can't do it because I keep thinking about this and looking at all the data that comes through from every country.

The issue with China though is how do they unravel the current restrictions? The expectation is that the virus will return to Hubei later in the year. How do they ever take them out of lockdown?

 

[M18CTID]

Just got a text from the GPs surgery stating something like

if you experience flu like symptoms, a high fever , persistent cough then regardless of whether you have been in contact with anyone with Covid 19 or your travel history, fucking stay away it’s not our problem. Just fuck off.

Ha ha - I got that text 11 days ago from Gorton Medical Centre!

 

[MillionMilesAway]

It would be a lot easier to simply accept it if the actions they are taking were not so strikingly at odds with those of all other major countries.

Are we blindly to accept that our lot are correct and everyone else's experts are necessarily wrong because they are not British?

It does appear very strange.

Italy (for example) appears to have gone for as much of a lockdown as they feasibly can, to reduce spreading.
The UK appears to have gone for having it spread slowly by having people isolate themselves.

As I see it:
The Italy one is a more in-your-face control process, with clear attempts to actively reduce deaths.
The UK one is surely based on computer modelling, and with an acceptance of unstoppable spread and acceptance of deaths.

Whether both are workable in the long run - until the vaccine is developed - remains to be seen.

 

[kippax4ever]

The number of serious cases is quite interesting and shows there must be multiple strains or something weird is going on in case reporting:

Italy - 1 in 15
China - 1 in 20
France - 1 in 25
UK - 1 in 30
South Korea - 1 in 100
USA - 1 in 120
Germany 1 in 300

I can understand the government objective in some ways. I think they want to build immunity because it is now inevitable that the vast majority of the population will be infected.

What they want is to spread the infections over a longer period otherwise there'll be hundreds of thousands in intensive care over a short period and the NHS cannot cope with that.

Lockdowns will eventually occur purely to slow the spread but to be honest for healthy young people it is probably ideal for them to get infected, get it out the way and build immunity so they might not get sick again in the future.

If we go into total lockdown then it will fade and come back in a loop like the flu.

So it,seems smaller countries..Italy & us not sure what SK pop is, by % wise going by them %uk,s pop say 60 -70mill,that's 600,000 at the lowest
USA say 260mill pop..2.6mill,if I've got it right % wise us& usa there's not much going by population but it's a hell of a lot of folk who could/get it.
Plus I presume when youngsters get it you mean teens and above.not babies upwards to pre-teens

 

[Blue Hefner]

It’s absolutely fucking ludicrous to think these experts aren’t worth their salt and it’s absolutely fucking ludicrous to think that Johnson isn’t acting in the best interests of the country.

With this in mind, why don’t the internet experts try listening?

Is it? Is it, really? Even if he is, he still could be wrong.

 

[Ban-jani]

It would be a lot easier to simply accept it if the actions they are taking were not so strikingly at odds with those of all other major countries.

Are we blindly to accept that our lot are correct and everyone else's experts are necessarily wrong because they are not British?

As I’ve said, I think all strategies will lead to health services being fucked and the majority of the population being infected.

Theyre damned if they do and damned if they don’t and the idea that a lockdown now will result in people not obeying it at the crucial time, makes sense.

 

[M18CTID]

it's not "inaction".

If people self isolate for 7 days when they have mild symptoms that makes a 25% impact on the rate of transmission. Much higher than canceling sporting events. Closing schools puts children in close contact with their grandparents which is counter productive.

These are some of the key points from yesterdays briefing. From the people who have run the numbers.

It's not inaction.

I said supposed inaction, not inaction. Look, I'm not knocking everything that was said - just stating that only time will tell if we're taking the best possible course of action

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

How people can talk how they do over this strategy of seemingly accepting 500,000 extra deaths as being good (for the herd)...is frightening. So it's OK to hold a beloved one whose life has been dismissed out of hand, 'your death is all for the part of the greater good, just ebb away we'll be fine now and thanks'.... ah don't get too personal, the odds of it actually happening to a loved one of yours is pretty remote...that's Ok then. Those at the top of the tree will be provided for and looked after, those suffocating on their own for the sake of the greater good is ...? You call it what you want, I'll say it as it is as I see things in my world view, immoral.

Where are you getting this nonsense from.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

Everton are in self-isolation now

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I think it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I've been critical of the government over this but a lot of what was being said yesterday appeared to make sense in a way. Only time will tell if this supposed "inaction" backfires or not. Either way, the whole situation is still extremely worrying

I think the odd bit is that the UK doesn't appear to be taking any action to actively slow things - the school trip thing seemed really out of place, a token gesture of no real effect, when they could have outright banned them from now on.

 

[BosnianBlue]

You state you understand herd immunity then say, and unfortunately prove, you don't. It slows the transmission of the disease from one person to another because the person who has it comes into contact with fewer susceptible hosts and the virus stops transmission with that infected person (apart from physical intermediate transmission e.g. an infected person sneezes onto an immune person and someone else - a susceptible host - touches the germs on that intermediate and then contracts the virus). People saying we are risking our vulnerable people are misunderstanding what needs to be done, these people have to be kept safe now, whichever tactic you use - herd immunity OR total lockdown.

I very well understand that, but to come to the threshold of herd immunity, you need 80-90% of population to get infected or have vaccine which we obviously don't have at the moment. They are not slowing anything at this particular time, they are giving it a free ride to eventually gain positives in the future. It's kinda legit option, but 1. it's pretty controversial and minority one at this point and 2. they are not containing the spread at this particular moment which was the main point of my argument. They are pretty much playing with words to confuse public they are doing something to help their current fears. They are not, they are eventually investing in future and hope it won't go too wrong now.

 

[Uffa]

I change my mind every 5 minutes.

Haha it's only normal, it's a very complicated situation and there's lots of data and experts that say different things which all make sense. Being open-minded and listening to different opinions can lead to finding reason in both sides.
Thankfully it's not me nor you who have to decide for a whole country right now, and I'd say the general rules each person has to follow are pretty much accepted worldwide and by different parties. So do what you can do, keep high hygiene standards and keep more distance than usual from others. Cough or sneeze in the hollow of of your arm or in a tissue, and if you feel feverish, self isolate and try to plan how to best keep it away from elders.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

Where are you getting this nonsense from.

It’s looking like a reasonable figure to expect, no? They have announced today we need at least 60% to get it for herd immunity. We are looking at 400k-550k deaths if the rate is around 1%. Obviously that rate may change over the coming weeks and months, but it won’t be far off.

They have said this is coming back every single year from now on as a seasonal disease, so we need herd immunity. So yes, they are sacrificing some of the elderly now to protect more in the long run.

 

[M18CTID]

I think the odd bit is that the UK doesn't appear to be taking any action to actively slow things - the school trip thing seemed really out of place, a token gesture of no real effect, when they could have outright banned them from now on.

One thing that amused me yesterday - not that any of this is particularly amusing - was Boris advising elderly people not to go on cruises. Like anyone with half a brain cell would at this moment in time!

 

[TCIB]

The issue with China though is how do they unravel the current restrictions? The expectation is that the virus will return to Hubei later in the year. How do they ever take them out of lockdown?

There are also whispers the figures are not on the level but overridingly is what you note. Their solution is not really a solution when you take a closer look. A temporary fix it would seem.

Especially with the attitude of the Chnese in general, namely their selfish self absorbed arrogant streak. Many wet market shop owners have said they are ready at a moments notice to go right back to trading the moment they can. Some are still doing it on the sly now. So the very core of the issue is not even going to be dealt with properly seemingly.