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The amazing stat about Gretzky:

In hockey, you get a point for a goal and one for an assist. Gretzky had 2,857 points -- 894 goals and 1,963 assists.

The next closest guy in points? Jaromir Jagr at 1,921.

That means even if Gretzky had never scored a SINGLE goal in his career -- and he's the all-time leading goal scorer in hockey history -- he'd STILL be leading the all-time points list.

THAT is greatness.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
The amazing stat about Gretzky:

In hockey, you get a point for a goal and one for an assist. Gretzky had 2,857 points -- 894 goals and 1,963 assists.

The next closest guy in points? Jaromir Jagr at 1,921.

That means even if Gretzky had never scored a SINGLE goal in his career -- and he's the all-time leading goal scorer in hockey history -- he'd STILL be leading the all-time points list.

THAT is greatness.
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Its hockey.
Might aswell be talking about tiddly winks.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Ha -- I'm well aware -- why do you think I like footy so much???

That said, of all the professional sport leagues in North America, the one I wish I had more time for is hockey. Can't stand American football; college basketball is okay but the pro game is odious; baseball I enjoy attending as a nice day out and love my Giants but I can't claim I'm interested in watching games as a neutral.

Also @Barcon and @idahoblues . . . It's GretZky with a z(ed). May you be visited by Tie Domi in a dark alley for spelling The Great One's name wrong :)
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I’m in Idaho, obviously I can’t spell
 
Barcon said:
Field hockey? Is that before you flood the field and let it freeze over? Ffs. There's only one type of hockey and it's not played in a field (well, maybe a field with a frozen pond in it). And the answer is, Wayne Gretsky.
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Yep. Canadians would want to include that sport, and his name would be there way above any else's. I know nothing about ice hockey (sorry, mate, that's what we call it in countries where it isn't played at any serious level), but as soon as I saw footage of Gretzky, his greatness jumped out of the screen at you.

Ali's status goes way, way beyond that of a mere athlete. I travelled widely in Africa in 1975-6, and the entire continent was simply in love with him. His stand on the Vietnam war made him a hero to many people who didn't give a damn about boxing. Billy Crystal's funeral eulogy (the best I've ever heard) says everything that needs to be said.

Football: for me, it is, hands down, Pelé. Three times a World Cup winner? Sorry, did you say three? Oh, and the small matter of over a thousand goals, at a time when the Brazilian league was still a serious proposition, because all their players hadn't been poached by Europe.
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Yep. Canadians would want to include that sport, and his name would be there way above any else's. I know nothing about ice hockey (sorry, mate, that's what we call it in countries where it isn't played at any serious level), but as soon as I saw footage of Gretzky, his greatness jumped out of the screen at you.

Ali's status goes way, way beyond that of a mere athlete. I travelled widely in Africa in 1975-6, and the entire continent was simply in love with him. His stand on the Vietnam war made him a hero to many people who didn't give a damn about boxing. Billy Crystal's funeral eulogy (the best I've ever heard) says everything that needs to be said.

Football: for me, it is, hands down, Pelé. Three times a World Cup winner? Sorry, did you say three? Oh, and the small matter of over a thousand goals, at a time when the Brazilian league was still a serious proposition, because all their players hadn't been poached by Europe.
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It was a shame as he got older he couldn't keep it up
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Yep. Canadians would want to include that sport, and his name would be there way above any else's. I know nothing about ice hockey (sorry, mate, that's what we call it in countries where it isn't played at any serious level), but as soon as I saw footage of Gretzky, his greatness jumped out of the screen at you.

Ali's status goes way, way beyond that of a mere athlete. I travelled widely in Africa in 1975-6, and the entire continent was simply in love with him. His stand on the Vietnam war made him a hero to many people who didn't give a damn about boxing. Billy Crystal's funeral eulogy (the best I've ever heard) says everything that needs to be said.

Football: for me, it is, hands down, Pelé. Three times a World Cup winner? Sorry, did you say three? Oh, and the small matter of over a thousand goals, at a time when the Brazilian league was still a serious proposition, because all their players hadn't been poached by Europe.
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One of the ways I judge greatness is when people with no or very little familiarity with something observe professionals and can instantly identify who the best is.

Gretzky was exactly the same on a hockey rink. I suspect Pele was on a football pitch too. Michael Jordan was that way on a court as well. Tiger Woods on a golf course also. But Gretzky wasn't big, imposing or flashy (Pele wasn't big but he was certainly imposing and flashy!). He was just really, really, really good.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
One of the ways I judge greatness is when people with no or very little familiarity with something observe professionals and can instantly identify who the best is.

Gretzky was exactly the same on a hockey rink. I suspect Pele was on a football pitch too. Michael Jordan was that way on a court as well. Tiger Woods on a golf course also. But Gretzky wasn't big, imposing or flashy (Pele wasn't big but he was certainly imposing and flashy!). He was just really, really, really good.
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By the way, your point about assists. I remember being very struck by an interview with Pelé, in which he said he was a bit miffed that he was only remembered for his goals (only!). He said he was never given credit for working really hard for all his teams and — if I remember rightly — said that he'd given more assists that led directly to goals than he'd scored goals himself.
 
hilts said:
10. Golf - Jack no Tiger no Jack no Tiger fuck it Tiger Woods edges it.
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The way I've always put it, Nicklaus is the greatest golfer of all time, but Woods played the greatest golf of all time. I modified that after the last Masters and decided Woods is the greatest of all time, even short a few majors. Nicklaus has more majors, and didn't play in the staggering number of restricted-field events Woods did. But in their prime, with the same equipment, I have to believe Woods would beat Nicklaus over the course of a season. Woods overpowered golf courses; Jack out-thought them. I think Woods' short game was hands down better than Jack's in their primes, whereas Jack was a much more accurate driver. But I bet if you played an entire season in inclement weather on tremendously difficult courses, Nicklaus would prevail.
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
The way I've always put it, Nicklaus is the greatest golfer of all time, but Woods played the greatest golf of all time. I modified that after the last Masters and decided Woods is the greatest of all time, even short a few majors. Nicklaus has more majors, and didn't play in the staggering number of restricted-field events Woods did. But in their prime, with the same equipment, I have to believe Woods would beat Nicklaus over the course of a season. Woods overpowered golf courses; Jack out-thought them. I think Woods' short game was hands down better than Jack's in their primes, whereas Jack was a much more accurate driver. But I bet if you played an entire season in inclement weather on tremendously difficult courses, Nicklaus would prevail.
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Unless they were competing at the same time it's impossible to compare. Jack was long for his time and obviously played with inferior equipment and general athletism wasn't big in those times. Slower greens less wedges bunkers were more of a hazard. Both mentality very strong.

To me Jack is the best unless tiger gets 18. I would say tiger gets the iconic vote due to worldwide status.
 
hilts said:
Unless they were competing at the same time it's impossible to compare. Jack was long for his time and obviously played with inferior equipment and general athletism wasn't big in those times. Slower greens less wedges bunkers were more of a hazard. Both mentality very strong.

To me Jack is the best unless tiger gets 18. I would say tiger gets the iconic vote due to worldwide status.
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All very fair. I actually think you could make a case Jack isn't even 2nd on the "iconic" list -- it might be Arnold Palmer, at least in America.

I've always liked Nicklaus more than Woods, just because if you read his books on golf, Nicklaus could absolutely relate his game to the average golfer's, with dozens of ideas on how to improve your game without having to hit it nine miles. Tiger really did play a game with which the rest of us are unfamiliar. His approach isn't nearly as adoptable. He could take what looked like huge risks and pull them off because he was so talented and so mentally tough (Palmer was that way too to some extent). Still take Jack winning the Masters in 86 as my favorite non-City sports moment, but I was totally jacked for Woods last year.

Woods IMO was hampered by having an asshole of a stage father. I couldn't stand Earl Woods.
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
All very fair. I actually think you could make a case Jack isn't even 2nd on the "iconic" list -- it might be Arnold Palmer, at least in America.

I've always liked Nicklaus more than Woods, just because if you read his books on golf, Nicklaus could absolutely relate his game to the average golfer's, with dozens of ideas on how to improve your game without having to hit it nine miles. Tiger really did play a game with which the rest of us are unfamiliar. His approach isn't nearly as adoptable. He could take what looked like huge risks and pull them off because he was so talented and so mentally tough (Palmer was that way too to some extent). Still take Jack winning the Masters in 86 as my favorite non-City sports moment, but I was totally jacked for Woods last year.

Woods IMO was hampered by having an asshole of a stage father. I couldn't stand Earl Woods.
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My worst non city moment,in fact thinking about it my worst sport moment of them all, was Tom Watson not getting that up and down to win the open. That would have been legendary.
 
crooky said:
Missing Bradman (arguably the statistically best sportsman of all time) and Wayne Gretzky yet including a bloody hot dog eating contest winner is bloody criminal!
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Bradman's career Test batting average of 99.94 has been cited as the greatest achievement by any sportsman in any major sport.
 
hilts said:
My worst non city moment,in fact thinking about it my worst sport moment of them all, was Tom Watson not getting that up and down to win the open. That would have been legendary.
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i was thinking about this the other day. Along the years I never rooted for Watson, ever. My man was Jack, and if it wasn't him it was a host of others, and it was usually to beat Tom. That chip-in in the '82 US Open on the 17th to beat Jack made me mental. But I always respected his Majors, especially all those Open Championships. That was maybe the worst I ever felt for somebody in all of sport as well when he missed the putt. I was hoping so hard for Tom, especially when I thought he had hit his second shot perfect, then it released, and kept going and going through the green, unlucky. I still thought he'd do it, but a poor third put too much pressure on the putt. That win would have been legendary indeed . I was almost was in tears, if he had won I probably would have been.
 
nimrod said:
Bradman's career Test batting average of 99.94 has been cited as the greatest achievement by any sportsman in any major sport.
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Yes, and didn't he miss an average of 100 by getting out for a duck (first ball?) in his final innings that would have got him there?

So after Bradman, how about the great Jack Simmons?
In other sports, Pele in football, Laver or Nadal in tennis, Colin Meads in rugby union, and no one will have heard of my nominee in rugby league.
 
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Boxing - Sugar Ray Robinson

Record - 200 fights; 172 wins; 109 by KO; 19 losses; 6 draws; 2NCs

His record by 1951 when he was 30, was 128-1.

 
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