COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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It is depressing to look back now at the media reports of when Italy was in crisis compared to how the situation here is now being reported. Likewise, looking at other countries reporting on us, it is filled with incredulity.

It does feel to me like we’ve been sleepwalking through it to an extent and flipping between different strategies without actually committing fully to any of them and doing them well. We didn’t commit to herd immunity (thankfully as it would have been disastrous, yet the message was that muddled people still think we are still aiming for it). We didn’t commit to the lockdown, implementing it far too slowly and not as stringently as it needed to be, which is why we may have to extend it further than other countries, and we didn’t commit to testing to properly analyse the spread of infection.

We’ve ended up with far greater numbers than a lot of others (which will be even higher when the care homes numbers fully come out) and yet are framing it as doing well because the NHS has enough beds to cope and made “protecting the NHS” as the main slogan rather than “protecting people”. Not having enough beds was supposedly what caused the huge numbers in Italy. Actually, what needed to happen and still does is that an awful lot more people didn’t need an NHS bed, they needed not to catch it in the first place.

Whilst focussing on that and still struggling to get PPE out to the NHS (surely critical to “protecting” it), we’ve been even slower with care homes and getting the right equipment and support in place there. We were supposed to be protecting the most vulnerable in society and instead it’s run rife in the places they should have been most protected.

There are only really two ways out of this. Stringent lockdown and mass testing. That’s the only way to get the reinfection rate below one - either limiting contact fully or mass testing of everyone as it has to include asymptomatic carriers. On the former, that will mean us continuing to keep at least the same measures in place for a lot longer if we keep with the same level, particularly as we still aren’t even in a position on the latter to test all the front line workers that need it, let alone the general public.

The only other exit strategy is to open up and allow it to continue, accepting the line that we keep it under the threshold of NHS capacity. If we do that though, then the unimaginable numbers that were spoken about to begin with will become a reality.

We haven’t replicated any of the successful methods other countries have utilised. It’s not too late to do that though, but we need a clearer direction and strategy and also an admittance that what we’ve done so far is not good enough.
 
144 would be the max heart rate for a 76 year old.

In essence, whoever told you that’s the only way to work out was talking bollocks.
Possibly but I forgot to say it was about 40 years ago a few months after a heart attack when I was a few stone overweight so perhaps we could excuse the caution in my case by a professor of metabolism at MRI.
However he did say that unless you want to compete in athletics there is no point in exceeding 144 bpm because there is no metabolic improvement going above it. He mentioned keeping the 144 bpm at a minimum of 20 mins 3 times a week as ideal to kid the body it was at somewhere near optimum readiness 100 percent of the time.
 
Noticed that social media Corona news stories are starting to become flooded with bot/propaganda accounts declaring an end of lock down is needed, how that many people haven’t really died etc.
 
....You do realise I mean millions of deaths, starvation, societal collapse as a worst case. What will the cancer death rate be when it can’t be treated any more because we don’t have power, medicines etc because the supply chain has gone.

If this is like death count top trumps? Societal collapse wins in that case.

What a cheery outlook. And they have the cheek to call me miserable!
 
most experts in vaccine development disagree with you.


I know who I believe.

this conversation needs to be more defined by what people mean by having a vaccine ready. It’s consistently been misused on this thread and always driven by the university of Oxford group announcement and then lifted from headlines off the tabloids.

there will not be a vaccine for mass use by September - even with multiple fast tracking on conventional methods for vaccine production to get to phase 2/3 for tests on safety and efficacy.Whats the durability period of a vaccine that was produced in 3 months going to be - well they could possibly confirm 2 months durability- . (Some vaccines have taken up to 20 years - this is the equivalent of creating a new football team with some nig name pros that wins the PL in its first season). Theoretically an experimental vaccine could be ready to roll out to front line workers but with a lot of unknowns still attached to it. Every biotech/uni wants to be the first one to scream eureka for kudos and a few bucks further down the line.

realistic short term hopes lie in the anti viral sector, I’ve now come to the belief so much is put on the vaccine story because quite simply people generally understand what a vaccine is and it’s easy for the press to associate a vaccine with an end date to this nightmare for their readership. cynical maybe, but this whole episode to date has taught me that crowd control, optics and politics trumps science. Vaccine for mass rollout by September is another one straight out of Disney Studios but I understand why people want to keep repeating it.

let’s bookmark this for September
 
You can only use the trace track and isolate solution when you have very low levels of infection. Once it gets beyond a certain level no one has resources to keep up with it. You cannot suppress it now to a level where that becomes a viable option again without a complete lockdown for months like China. The UK has been in partial lockdown like most other countries for about 5 weeks? The press are itching for news of easing measures and building public expectation. Can you imagine the reaction to the government now announcing a more stringent lock down? I wouldn't work.

So you can't suppress the spread enough to go back to contact tracing. You can't just release all the measures and hope for no second wave. So what do you do?

They will ease one of the restrictions and then wait to see what happens. If the Rt goes above 1 (it will) case numbers increase (how will they know?) and the measure will be put back in place. They will wait for case numbers to drop again (weeks not days) and then try a different measure. This will go on until they find a combination of measures that keeps R below 1 but allows some form of sustainable society. This will be the new normal.

That new normal continues until either a) everyone has been vaccinated. or b) natural herd immunity or c) the vulnerable cohort have all died.

That's your options. Choose as you feel fit.
Whenever I think about our options of releasing lockdown measures every option is bad. I’m not sure whether this country is configured in such a way as to be able to decide on a course of action that is the least worst. I’m reminded of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, you want the truth? You can’t handle the truth.
 
Sky poll

An exclusive poll for Sky News released on Thursday found Britons have become sadder and more anxious since the coronavirus crisis - but strongly support the lockdown remaining at least in the short term.

Over half the population would not support key parts of society and the economy being reopened in the next few weeks, including 51% wanting primary schools to stay shut, 53% wanting secondary schools to stay shut, 67% wanting to keep people working from home and 72% wanting to keep older people indoors.
 
Anyway just walked the dog.

you would think it was the greater Manchester shit cyclist world championship combined with the grand final of the couch to 5k running competition.
Hahaha, on our way back from having our run this morning we had the exact same conversation about cyclists, they were all over the fucking place and riding like completed bellends.
 
Just been for a run and Heaton Park is busier than I’ve seen for a while, now I run regular as many on here can attest for me so I’m just trying to keep to my regular routine but the amount of (I’m being polite now) fat bastards in Lycra who’ve never fucking run or cycled before this lockdown began is fucking embarrassing, avoiding wheezing collapsing bodies all over the place doesn’t make god an enjoyable run!! Will start getting up earlier to do it from now on.
Yeah, we said same. We went earlier today as well, got there about 10 and it was far busier than usual.
 
Volunteer anyone?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10....iW-2Ftd1iPgaa1CsV3zlJpvUxKWG1wnhRlHop4Gta5nTs

summary:
"Until an effective vaccine will be available, we propose an alternative approach, akin to avalanche control at ski resorts, a practice which intentionally triggers small avalanches in order to prevent a singular catastrophic one. Its main goal is to approach herd immunity faster than the current alternatives, with lower mortality rates and lower demand for critical health-care resources. According to this approach, individuals whose probability of developing serious health conditions is low (i.e. 20-49 years old with no comorbidities) will be offered the option to be voluntarily exposed to the virus under controlled supervision, and will then be issued 'immunity certificates' if they are confirmed to have developed SARS-CoV-2 antibodies."
Locking down the elderly and vulnerable whilst allowing the virus to spread quickly amongst those who are largely unaffected seems to be a perfectly sensible policy to me. Could never happen here I’m afraid.
 
He's right though. Those things will all happen if society collapses; an unlikely but feasible outcome of a prolonged lockdown. The whole economy basically is a big fucking Ponzi scheme.
Should I be getting worried GDM? That’s about 4 posts on the trot you’ve agreed with me. I’d normally have expected at least one insult by now!

;-)
 
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