Keir Starmer

blueinsa said:
"How the fuck can you vote Tory"?

"I wont now we have a centre left leader who will take the party back to its centre ground"

"Fuck off you red Tory, we dont want you"
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"Viva la revolucion"
"When do we want it?"
"Well...erm...never, cos we can't have those mudblood common folk who may have voted differently before voting for us"
 
Rascal said:
I am neither racist or stupid.

The EU is pro-capitalist, it enforces neo-liberalism on its members. Keynesian economic theory is frowned upon and they worship at the altar of Hayek,who just happened to be Joesphs hero and who was the economic guru behind Thatcherism, Thatcherism gave us the free market, she fought for it, its that free market that inadvertently denies the individual nations of democratic control of their economies hence ruling out Keynesian interventionism. A case in point would be the Steelworks not allowed to be saved by EU rules on state aid. Tell those Steelworkers the EU works for them? Then you see why so many of the working class Labour heartlands voted leave. Labour under Starmer is and will become the party of the conscionable middle classes and the metropolitan centric liberal elites.

Labour should not be a liberal party, it was traditionally always small C conservative and patriotic in outlook, after all, when it comes to Patriotic duty its the working class who do most of the dying.

I don't buy btw the Tory right and the Kipper stance on leaving the EU, I didn't vote leave because of Farage and I abhor how he and a number of far right fruitcakes backed by self interested billionaires used the leave movement for their own personal agendas. Labour should have followed its history and its heart and become the party of leave, it would have silenced the fruitcakes on the far right and in all probability won the party the election. Yet Starmer and the other "labour" backstabbers preferred a Labour defeat so they could rid the party of the Socialists. So I ask once again, what is the point of a Labour party that is not Socialist but is a clone of the neo-liberal Tories/
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I'm sure you're not racist.

But with a straight face, do you think the UK and EU countries are currently adopting Keynesian economics in response to this crisis, or no?
 

Another soft interview promotion for New Labour 2.0 in George Osborne's rag.
 
Oh dear Kier i am trying so very hard to like and vote for you yet its the same nonsense all the time.

Gov reaches a target of testing they got taunted for as not deliverable so the reaction is to demand 250,000 tests now?

Are these people the best we have got to lead our political parties?
 
blueinsa said:
Oh dear Kier i am trying so very hard to like and vote for you yet its the same nonsense all the time.

Gov reaches a target of testing they got taunted for as not deliverable so the reaction is to demand 250,000 tests now?

Are these people the best we have got to lead our political parties?
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The scorn and derision labelled at that target was incessant, many on here giving
convoluted diatribes about why it would never happen.
Well, it did. So Starmer comes out with this shite in response, it's not exactly been
a great start.
 
blueinsa said:
Oh dear Kier i am trying so very hard to like and vote for you yet its the same nonsense all the time.

Gov reaches a target of testing they got taunted for as not deliverable so the reaction is to demand 250,000 tests now?

Are these people the best we have got to lead our political parties?
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I like to think I have a balanced view on this as I think both the Tories and Kier Starmer are cunts. However the attempt to shift the goal posts by Starmer to 250000 just because they managed 100K is pathetic. If it wasn't for him having media friends he'd rightly be getting pelters.
 
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blueinsa said:
Hated his brexit stance for very obvious reasons but he will have my votes whilst he is leader as I like him and he will steer the party back towards the much needed position of the "winning" centre ground.
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​
Ancient Citizen said:
That's sacrilege to many on here!
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Quite a number of traditional Labour voters on here have been making the point over and over that we would like to consider coming back to the Labour Party but never could whilst the hard-left were in control.

We also repeatedly pointed out the inconvenient truth that the LP could never achieve a GE success without our support - that seemed to really rub some up the wrong way.

What we have gotten back is dogs abuse from some of those that seem wrapped up in some fervent hard-left crusade and consider us to be not pure enough - basically we were told to fuck off.

Setting out inconvenient truths and then being proven to have been right all the time can attract that sort of reaction I guess
 
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Rascal said:
I am neither racist or stupid.

The EU is pro-capitalist, it enforces neo-liberalism on its members. Keynesian economic theory is frowned upon and they worship at the altar of Hayek,who just happened to be Joesphs hero and who was the economic guru behind Thatcherism, Thatcherism gave us the free market, she fought for it, its that free market that inadvertently denies the individual nations of democratic control of their economies hence ruling out Keynesian interventionism. A case in point would be the Steelworks not allowed to be saved by EU rules on state aid. Tell those Steelworkers the EU works for them? Then you see why so many of the working class Labour heartlands voted leave. Labour under Starmer is and will become the party of the conscionable middle classes and the metropolitan centric liberal elites.

Labour should not be a liberal party, it was traditionally always small C conservative and patriotic in outlook, after all, when it comes to Patriotic duty its the working class who do most of the dying.

I don't buy btw the Tory right and the Kipper stance on leaving the EU, I didn't vote leave because of Farage and I abhor how he and a number of far right fruitcakes backed by self interested billionaires used the leave movement for their own personal agendas. Labour should have followed its history and its heart and become the party of leave, it would have silenced the fruitcakes on the far right and in all probability won the party the election. Yet Starmer and the other "labour" backstabbers preferred a Labour defeat so they could rid the party of the Socialists. So I ask once again, what is the point of a Labour party that is not Socialist but is a clone of the neo-liberal Tories/
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We have discussed this before...……….

I was/am a Leave supporter - but what confused me was the vast majority of the more vocal Remain supporters were/are also people 'who see themselves' as 'hard-left'.

Surely if they were genuinely 'hard-left' - like you - they would have supported Leaving the EU​

I have always considered that they are somewhat 'faux' in their 'beliefs' and are really just a group of protestors that like to engage in protesting on an internet forum.

Anyway - best me careful not to get off-topic
 
mcfc1632 said:
We have discussed this before...……….

I was/am a Leave supporter - but what confused me was the vast majority of the more vocal Remain supporters were/are also people 'who see themselves' as 'hard-left'.

Surely if they were genuinely 'hard-left' - like you - they would have supported Leaving the EU​

I have always considered that they are somewhat 'faux' in their 'beliefs' and are really just a group of protestors that like to engage in protesting on an internet forum.

Anyway - best me careful not to get off-topic
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I associated Leave / anti EU sentiment with both extreme right and left. Its the idea that the EU prevents you running the country the way you want and therefore you have to leave. For the Lefties its the limitations on state aide and commitment to the free market (capitalism). For the right its about immigration and bigotry.

This is very evident when you ask a Tory to name a single benefit of leaving the EU. You only ever get 2 responses: 1 is free movement of people and the insistence this is a net drain on our economy when the reverse is true and 2 is new international trade deals which is in fact a negative as the vast majority of new deals we will do will be deals to replace the ones we lose as part of the EU (we will be net worse of for many years).
 
Gaudion M said:
I associated Leave / anti EU sentiment with both extreme right and left. Its the idea that the EU prevents you running the country the way you want and therefore you have to leave. For the Lefties its the limitations on state aide and commitment to the free market (capitalism). For the right its about immigration and bigotry.

This is very evident when you ask a Tory to name a single benefit of leaving the EU. You only ever get 2 responses: 1 is free movement of people and the insistence this is a net drain on our economy when the reverse is true and 2 is new international trade deals which is in fact a negative as the vast majority of new deals we will do will be deals to replace the ones we lose as part of the EU (we will be net worse of for many years).
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All this fuss over leaving a trading bloc, it's obviously more than that isn't it? There is absolutely nothing wrong with people voting against federalism and more people voted against federalism than didn't.

People voted for whatever reason they decided and in a democracy then that's fine, calling people bigots got us where we are today there's a lot of that in todays politics where people don't get their way and try to undermine democratic votes with soundbytes and slogans.
 
mexico1970 said:
Why should I give my head a wobble, my point still stands. Until Labour cut out the cancer that's eating it, the party will be on the back burner for a considerable time.
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The cancer in the party is MP's who are happy to take on the role for their own benefit without the responsibility of ever being in power. Corbyn gave the members democracy back within the party to challenge them and were now being punished for doing so. I fully expect to be expelled for having the audacity of questioning the motives of MP's and staffers who would rather sabotage a general election to protect their own powerbases than give people a real difference in politics.

Were now going to have a right and centre right party party system. The Lib Dems are dead. Greens ignored. Farages next political party raised higher than it should be for such an irrelevance.

It's disgusting that in my 42 years on this planet this country has gone from one of community to one of self. The majority will suffer from it.

The nation's political choice will be Tories v Red Tories. We might as well be American. Probably will be when health insurance takes over the NHS after the pandemic is over.
 
mexico1970 said:
Why should I give my head a wobble, my point still stands. Until Labour cut out the cancer that's eating it, the party will be on the back burner for a considerable time.
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Restating your opinion is worth jack shit, we all know what you think.

Read the article and justify the shock, horror! Otherwise you're blowing out of your backside.
 
Gaudion M said:
I associated Leave / anti EU sentiment with both extreme right and left. Its the idea that the EU prevents you running the country the way you want and therefore you have to leave. For the Lefties its the limitations on state aide and commitment to the free market (capitalism). For the right its about immigration and bigotry.

This is very evident when you ask a Tory to name a single benefit of leaving the EU. You only ever get 2 responses: 1 is free movement of people and the insistence this is a net drain on our economy when the reverse is true and 2 is new international trade deals which is in fact a negative as the vast majority of new deals we will do will be deals to replace the ones we lose as part of the EU (we will be net worse of for many years).
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You may have made such an association - but the stark evidence of this forum is that you have been/are wholly wrong.

@Rascal supported Leave and he could be viewed as 'extreme left' by some people on here - but I can think of no posters whatsoever that could be viewed as remotely 'extreme-right' that supported Brexit.

Even clear Tory supporters such as @Chippy_boy were wholly against Brexit in the 2015-2019 timeframe.

But what this forum clearly demonstrated was that almost every poster that actively supported Brexit was either Centre-Right or (more often I suggest) Centre-Left

At least you have the good grace to admit to how you have gotten it so wrong for so long - despite the mountain of evidence everyday that was in front of your face.

This is why I have considered the main anti-Brexit posters to be in the main conflicted and tribal protestors

But - as I said earlier - best not to stray too far off topic
 
mexico1970 said:
All this fuss over leaving a trading bloc, it's obviously more than that isn't it? There is absolutely nothing wrong with people voting against federalism and more people voted against federalism than didn't.

People voted for whatever reason they decided and in a democracy then that's fine, calling people bigots got us where we are today there's a lot of that in todays politics where people don't get their way and try to undermine democratic votes with soundbytes and slogans.
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Very well said - and people have not learned
 
The perfect fumble said:
Restating your opinion is worth jack shit, we all know what you think.

Read the article and justify the shock, horror! Otherwise you're blowing out of your backside.
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People can read the article for themselves bud, political commentary on the subject has been in the forefront of politics for a considerable time. Restating my opinion that Labour have a problem isn't so much conjecture as fact, do you deny that Labour have an issue that needs fixing?

@mat the country weren't given an option the reason why the Tories are in right now is because the Labour party went too left and people didn't want that, as well as having a wishy washy cobbled together solution for the Brexit issue.
 
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