Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

The Germans were in bars at restaurants at the weekend watching their football teams. If their lives and lives of their neighbouring counties head towards some for of normality then I’m sure ‘the tax-payer’ will see that as a decent compromise

What’s the alternative? Pull the drawbridge up? That may work in the short term but not in the medium/long term

You say:

"What’s the alternative? Pull the drawbridge up? That may work in the short term but not in the medium/long term."

I am afraid that you have that the wrong way round - it is the continuous mountain of debt and how that is dealt with across the EU that will not work in the medium-long term

The discussions between @Saddleworth2 and myself of a week or 2 ago and the information shared clearly shows that it is the continuous increasing mountain of debt that will cause and accelerate the implosion of the EU - I recommend the 2nd video linked in this post to explain.

My post here is intended essentially for the Leavers and those Remainers who make the effort of objective thought and analysis - I consider @Saddleworth2, to be such and there must be other such Remainers I am sure.

I do not wish to be seen as shutting down debate - that is left to others - but I would genuinely suggest that the majority of Remainers do not bother with this post or following the links. Treat it with the contempt that I am told my posts deserve - and please simply ignore it.

Going back to the months after the referendum there was a narrative attempted on here by the Remainers that Leavers are 'little Englanders' (which itself demonstrates a lack of understanding) and that Leavers were xenophobes who just wished 'ill' on the EU and hoped for it to collapse.

In fact I think that I have seen further daft posts like that only recently - I see it as just part of the pettiness of some Remainers that have always sought to characterise the Leavers as thick, racists etc.

I have many times sought to explain that this is not the case - I have explained that when the EU implosion/collapse does commence and picks up pace - then the UK will be badly affected whether we are still a member or have already left.

The main point though is that I and many others have had no doubt that the collapse will happen and that it is inevitable and, relatively, not long off. Therefore, the sooner that we are away and the cleaner that break is, then the better the chance that the impact to the UK will be less and the greater the chances of our recovery.

I want us away asap and I really really hope that the EU implosion is delayed - which will help us - but, as it will happen, it is essential that the EU are not allowed any influence/control over our economic and fiscal policies.

Anyway, I have chosen to make another post on this as I stumbled across a couple of videos that I thought gave a good explanation of just one of the number of reasons that the collapse of the EU is inevitable and is just being delayed.

The first clip is worth a listen - 19mins - but you need to have the time to concentrate on it - the 2nd half of it is when the penny starts to drop...………….

The 2nd link for me explains it much better - but it is 27mins long

You could almost feel sorry for the Germans:





These presentations were given in 2018 and it is worth considering that since then...……….

• Macron has started to be much more bullish about seeking to secure/tie in Germany to obligations to provide ongoing/perpetual support.....
• Germany has started to be less enamoured with what their role has developed into.....
• Christine Largarde has taken on leadership of the ECB - FFS!!!!

And................

• Covid-19 has occurred – and the EU has committed to........

Take the recent judgement by the German constitutional court and then consider how that will mean nothing once the ECJ asserts the supremacy that Germany gave them when it signed the Lisbon Treaty.... So the EU powerhouse Germany will start to become unable to control events.

https://www.ft.com/content/d93008c5-2b3c-4b2e-9499-5eabaaa959db

Add 2 and 2 and it turns out to equal - that Germany could/will be fucked along with the rest of the EU construct. As I say, you could almost feel sorry for them.

Of course if some Remainers have ignored my request not to follow the links - then I can predict their response.............

"But it does not matter – the UK is not in the Eurozone" – which will of course just further demonstrate their lack of understanding

Also worth noting that my concluding comment appears to be worth pointing out again (not aimed at you):

"Add 2 and 2 and it turns out to equal - that Germany could/will be fucked along with the rest of the EU construct. As I say, you could almost feel sorry for them.

Of course if some Remainers have ignored my request not to follow the links - then I can predict their response.........….
​

But it does not matter – the UK is not in the Eurozone" – which will of course just further demonstrate their lack of understanding"

Those thinking that the UK, if it had remained in the EU, would not end up paying towards bailouts should have read the article linked in my post at the top of page 3397, which comments on the consideration to make the recovery plan part of the MFF - summarised:

"There are many advantages of doing things this way. Placing the recovery plan into the MFF implies that it will be the Commission, not the member states, deciding how to distribute the money...…"

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-eus-budget-and-the-covid-19-recovery-plan/​

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Who do you think bailed Greece out during their sovereign debt crisis which was the biggest ever EU bailout. I’ll give you a clue - not a penny came from us. So basically you’re talking shit as usual if you think we usually pay for Eurozone bailouts. No need to respond unless you can demonstrate I’m wrong.

Good morning , I think you will find the Greek bailout was a loan. But as the UK is a major contributor to both the EIB and IMF we still backed a significant proportion of this loan. Second point you missed was France and Germany have agreed to grants, these are different to loans as you don't have to pay them back, in case you didn't know? These will come direct from the EU coffers over the coming years and the UK is/was the second biggest net contributor to those coffers. So what I said was correct and what you said was incorrect and largely irrelevant.

 

[journolud]

Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry - a whole host of EU sycophants at Westminster

How good it has been not to hear their whining voices anymore

Important distinction but the poster I asked the question of was speaking in the present tense, you are referring to the past tense. As far as I am concerned Brexit is a done deal and no one is trying to sabotage it. Anyone trying to delay it are doing so due to the uncertainty caused by Coronavirus

 

[mcfc1632]

Important distinction but the poster I asked the question of was speaking in the present tense, you are referring to the past tense. As far as I am concerned Brexit is a done deal and no one is trying to sabotage it. Anyone trying to delay it are doing so due to the uncertainty caused by Coronavirus

There is zero point in any extension unless the EU signal willingness to agree to the UK positions on LPF and other key areas.

As said by someone recently - with the EU, you always find the light at the end of the tunnel is actually just more tunnel

All those that are expressing the desire to extend - without EU agreement on those terms must, IMO, either, a) not understand how are why the EU are seeking to embroil us in an extension into a period where the value of the UK's contributions will reflect the latest MFF outcome - over which we have no control and possibly will include the recovery funding and/or b) are trying to sabotage the negotiations by removing from the EU the threat of a UK exit on WTO terms - at the worst possible time for the EU.

 

[west didsblue]

Good morning , I think you will find the Greek bailout was a loan. But as the UK is a major contributor to both the EIB and IMF we still backed a significant proportion of this loan. Second point you missed was France and Germany have agreed to grants, these are different to loans as you don't have to pay them back, in case you didn't know? These will come direct from the EU coffers over the coming years and the UK is/was the second biggest net contributor to those coffers. So what I said was correct and what you said was incorrect and largely irrelevant.

Good morning. Why do you think I will find something that is patently incorrect? The EIB was nothing to do with the bailout. 97% of the bailout was from the ECB and a fund set up by the Eurozone countries neither of which received U.K. contributions. The IMF contribution is irrelevant as it’s not EU related and has been paid back anyway.
So, unsurprisingly, you’re wrong as usual.

 

[mcfc1632]

Good morning , I think you will find the Greek bailout was a loan. But as the UK is a major contributor to both the EIB and IMF we still backed a significant proportion of this loan. Second point you missed was France and Germany have agreed to grants, these are different to loans as you don't have to pay them back, in case you didn't know? These will come direct from the EU coffers over the coming years and the UK is/was the second biggest net contributor to those coffers. So what I said was correct and what you said was incorrect and largely irrelevant.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-eus-budget-and-the-covid-19-recovery-plan/

is very relevant and, as explained just now in another post - it just shows further that some Remainers simply do not understand the facts and potential risks or are just locked in the hope of sabotaging the negotiations to see the UK still under EU control.

In a different - but somewhat associated point - I thought this was interesting:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/u-k-announces-plan-for-sweeping-tariff-cuts-after-brexit-1.1438110

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Good morning. Why do you think I will find something that is patently incorrect? The EIB was nothing to do with the bailout. 97% of the bailout was from the ECB and a fund set up by the Eurozone countries neither of which received U.K. contributions. The IMF contribution is irrelevant as it’s not EU related and has been paid back anyway.
So, unsurprisingly, you’re wrong as usual.

I was responding and referring to the poster who mentioned the recent grants announced yesterday, you were referring to loans, which we did back part of through the mechanisms I stated. As you clearly don't know the difference between a grant and a loan there isnt much point in continuing this dicussion. I've made my point so I think we can now return to our happy status quo. FYI Your rude first post to me is why I normally block you. Have a good day.

 

[west didsblue]

I was referring to the recent grants announced yesterday, you were referring to loans, which we did back part of through the mechanisms I stated. As you clearly don't know the differnce between a grant and a loan there isnt much point in continuing this dicussion. I've made my point so I think we can now return to our happy status quo. FYI Your rude first post to me is why I normally block you. Have a good day.

You have indeed made your point. A rather strange one that was nothing to do with the bailout that was being discussed, but that’s no surprise. Probably for the best that you don’t respond to my posts as they rarely if ever have any relevance to the topic being discussed, and appear to be deliberately obtuse.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Different argument and leaving a political union is hardly pulling up the drawbridge blue

Sorry, I thought you were talking about pooling resources to combat the virus across Europe and you were happy that we weren't part of it and our taxpayers won't be paying. I may have misread/interpreted as it was late and I was replying from bed

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about pooling resources to combat the virus across Europe and you were happy that we weren't part of it and our taxpayers won't be paying. I may have misread/interpreted as it was late and I was replying from bed

No problem, thanks for the reply, it is appreaciated.

 

[BobKowalski]

This made me laugh.

‘David Davis is on the radio saying that, actually, *now* is the time that the German car makers are going to step in and sort out Brexit. That is really happening. Right now.’ @Independent

 

[bluethrunthru]

About as Orwellian as it gets

 

[mcfc1632]

About as Orwellian as it gets

Did you mean to add - "....and thereby ending the discrimination that is inherent to FOM" ?

 

[BobKowalski]

About as Orwellian as it gets

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery

You’re right. That Orwell chap was onto something

 

[west didsblue]

Here’s the full tweet with the logical fallacy included. The second part of the tweet is clearly a non sequitur.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

This made me laugh.

‘David Davis is on the radio saying that, actually, *now* is the time that the German car makers are going to step in and sort out Brexit. That is really happening. Right now.’ @Independent

Desperation. They are still lying to themselves as much as us. Liz Truss made a speech yesterday outlining all these grate things they were going to do with tariffs. Called out the car industry and farming saying they would be protected. The reverse is far more accurate. No mention of the implications of what tariffs on the side of the equation will do and no mention of the regulatory burden of a new system and new customs controls. We are starting a trade war and the first sectors that will get hit will be farming and manufacturing. The brass neck to suggest they will protect these industries when any one with an ounce of common sense knows they can't and they will get decimated.

 

[BobKowalski]

This Orwellian thinking applies to the Withdrawal Agreement too where we ‘won’ the day.

Yet curiously out of the two Unions, the UK and the EU, only one Union was obligated by treaty to divide its sovereign territory with a customs border and cede sole economic writ over part of its sovereign territory to the other Union.

 

[mcfc1632]

This Orwellian thinking applies to the Withdrawal Agreement too where we ‘won’ the day.

Yet curiously out of the two Unions, the UK and the EU, only one Union was obligated by treaty to divide its sovereign territory with a customs border and cede sole economic writ over part of its sovereign territory to the other Union.

Good call

I agree that those Remainers Robbins and May have a fuck load to answer for - for bringing forward that WA.

As have all those duplicitous and self-serving Remainers that indulged themselves by undermining the UK negotiating position during 2019-2019

They have done great damage to the nation's future and cost us £billions

At least the ones on here that supported them were irrelevant to what actually happened - so have just been naïve rather than maliciously self-serving

As we all now have seen - we were never going to see movement from the EU unless and until they faced the threat of a viable walk-away option and the political will to use it

That is certainly still true in 2020

 

[bluethrunthru]

Did you mean to add - "....and thereby ending the discrimination that is inherent to FOM" ?

shouldn't you be working hard in Conservative Central office and not reading these posts................you are currently putting in 10 hour shifts writing reams across three threads to support these loonies - away with you back to work lackey

 

[bluethrunthru]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh its the fault of the scientists now......