COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Interestingly in all the details of track and trace that have been published, I can find no details of personal geopositioning (I.e. mobile phone location) or bank/credit card usage. Now most of the latter is online at the moment, but as we open up it will become more important.
Without both being fed into the equation, I can't see that it's going to work.

Here's how track an trace will work in the UK:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/29/test-trace-track-uk-coronavirus/

And when the app is added to the mix:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/05/29/nhs-app-track-trace-uk-coronavirus/
 
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twosips said:
Ha. Do you still think its conspiracy theory nonsense to suggest that this is a political decision, not a scientific one? Literal proof right here:

Click to expand...

And Wales, Ireland and Scotland are also relaxing measures despite them being devolved. The problem you have is that everyone is calling for a relaxation but when it is suggested everyone then moans about it. For example look at the issue with quarantine and arrivals at airports. Everyone screaming why isn't it happening and when it's proposed everyone screaming it's unjust. In theory every decision is a political one despite the science behind it but some of what is spouted on Twitter, papers etc is mental i.e. 5G is too blame
 
Hmmm. This ain't good.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...me-strategy-hiv-dodge-immune-response-chinese

Coronavirus uses same strategy as HIV to dodge immune response, Chinese study finds
  • Both viruses remove marker molecules on surface of an infected cell that are used to identify invaders, according to Chinese researchers
  • This commonality could mean Sars-CoV-2 may be around for some time, they say
Click to expand...

Essentially, looks like this is likely to hang around and flare up again in people. Really bad in fact. Sars didn't do this, and its a notable difference.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Our current new case levels are 3 times the level of peak South Korea but wer'e deploying a lot of technology including the app (soon) and a lot of people at it. Here are two articles on how it works:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-into-a-virus-tracking-database-idUSKBN22Y03I

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...w-south-korea-flattened-its-coronavirus-curve

I can't see people will accept this who think other civil liberties are not trumped by the right NOT to get I'll and die. But that discussion is for the political thread.
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Im no civil liberties type, Im an app developer and I have to say I woudn't touch this app with a barge pole. there is one 1 reason they didn't use the google/apple approach and that is down to wanting to harvest data. No real clarity about who can access the data, no clarity on restrictions in place around that data. and keeping it for 20 years? No thanks.

the google/apple solution was ready to go, quicker to develop, more secure and more private in general.

at best, I may use an old device I have with a payg sim and old a new anonymous email address.

I do think if it wasn't given to a team that had already abused data in such a horrific way then it woudn't be causing quite as big of a fuss. but too late for that.
 
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twosips said:
Hmmm. This ain't good.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...me-strategy-hiv-dodge-immune-response-chinese



Essentially, looks like this is likely to hang around and flare up again in people. Really bad in fact. Sars didn't do this, and its a notable difference.
Click to expand...

Apparently this site is quite good at posting dodgy data. check back in a week or so and see it mentions about the papers being recinded.

I think this is the same site that posted an article saying the virus could linger and infect in the air many hours later and survive on sufaces for 5 days at 37%'c etc. that got recinded quickly, the site did report that which is a bonus to them.


Although I do recall from the early days of Dr Campbell videos he did say that this does hide from the immune system effecting white bloodcell production. so maybe the same thing.
 
twosips said:
The scientific data suggests we shouldn't be easing lockdown. But we're doing it anyway. That's ignoring scientific data.
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... according to a sky journalist.
New daily cases under 2000 with many regions at much lower levels of infection seems ok as the time to start for me.
 
As I understand the contact tracing you get symptomatic, you notify and get sent a test in the post. You send it back and if tested positive you are then emailed or phoned to provide names, emails and phone numbers of people you remember being in contact with.

Stuff that!


You will get a phone call asking for the phone numbers and email addresses of your contacts!
Anyone trying that with me unverified will get a two word answer.
I don’t even talk to my bank when they call me, even when I know it’s them. I always tell them to put anything important in writing or if I think it may be critical I call the bank via another phone.
It will be a scammers paradise.
 
grunge said:
Im no civil liberties type, Im an app developer and I have to say I woudn't touch this app with a barge pole. there is one 1 reason they didn't use the google/apple approach and that is down to wanting to harvest data. No real clarity about who can access the data, no clarity on restrictions in place around that data. and keeping it for 20 years? No thanks.

the google/apple solution was ready to go, quicker to develop, more secure and more private in general.

at best, I may use an old device I have with a payg sim and old a new anonymous email address.

I do think if it wasn't given to a team that had already abused data in such a horrific way then it woudn't be causing quite as big of a fuss. but too late for that.
Click to expand...
As at IT Architect for the last 20 years the data is going to be kept safe by Caldecott Guardians in the NHS/PHE .
Having dealt with Goigle as well as the NHS, I'd trust the NHS/PHE with my data more than I trust Google/Apple.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
As I understand the contact tracing you get symptomatic, you notify and get sent a test in the post. You send it back and if tested positive you are then emailed or phoned to provide names, emails and phone numbers of people you remember being in contact with.

Stuff that!


You will get a phone call asking for the phone numbers and email addresses of your contacts!
Anyone trying that with me unverified will get a two word answer.
I don’t even talk to my bank when they call me, even when I know it’s them. I always tell them to put anything important in writing or if I think it may be critical I call the bank via another phone.
It will be a scammers paradise.
Click to expand...
That is the issue for me: Scammers. How are they going to stop scammers?
 
BlueAnorak said:
... according to a sky journalist.
New daily cases under 2000 with many regions at much lower levels of infection seems ok as the time to start for me.
Click to expand...

He's a very senior journo claiming he's quoting the Downing Street press briefing. Do you think he's just lying? I guess I can't prove you wrong, but you're basically 'fake news'-ing it with absolutely no proof either. Vallance literally said there's a significant amount of infection in society last night and we are in a fragile state. It mirrors up quite well. I guess this will go nowhere as neither of us can technically prove *anything* we post in this thread at all.

Anyway. Rise in hospital admissions again in London, apparently... obviously he could be lying, and hopefully he is hey!



Edit - not making this up - promise! I live right off Oxford road/near the Mancunian way, and the siren levels have gone notably up again around here too. I know it could be for other reasons, but its reminding me of a few weeks ago.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
As I understand the contact tracing you get symptomatic, you notify and get sent a test in the post. You send it back and if tested positive you are then emailed or phoned to provide names, emails and phone numbers of people you remember being in contact with.

Stuff that!


You will get a phone call asking for the phone numbers and email addresses of your contacts!
Anyone trying that with me unverified will get a two word answer.
I don’t even talk to my bank when they call me, even when I know it’s them. I always tell them to put anything important in writing or if I think it may be critical I call the bank via another phone.
It will be a scammers paradise.
Click to expand...

If NHS Test and Trace calls you by phone, the service will be using a single phone number 0300 0135 000. The only website the service will ask you to visit is https://contact-tracing.phe.gov.uk

If you think you have been subjected to, or a victim of, a scam or attempted fraud using Track and Trace or any other fraud you should call 101 or contact Action Fraud on 0300 123 2040. If you or someone else is in immediate danger or risk of harm dial 999.

Contact tracers will never ask residents to dial a premium rate number such as those starting 09 or 087, never request payment, ask for any bank account details, for social media identities or login details, or those of your contacts, will never ask for any passwords or ask to set up any passwords or PINs.

They will never ask you to purchase a product or to download any software to your device or ask you to hand over control of your computer, smartphone or tablet, will never ask you to access any website that does not belong to the Government or NHS.
 
twosips said:
He's a very senior journo claiming he's quoting the Downing Street press briefing. Do you think he's just lying? I guess I can't prove you wrong, but you're basically 'fake news'-ing it with absolutely no proof either. Vallance literally said there's a significant amount of infection in society last night and we are in a fragile state. It mirrors up quite well. I guess this will go nowhere as neither of us can technically prove *anything* we post in this thread at all.

Anyway. Rise in hospital admissions again in London, apparently... obviously he could be lying, and hopefully he is hey!



Edit - not making this up - promise! I live right off Oxford road/near the Mancunian way, and the siren levels have gone notably up again around here too. I know it could be for other reasons, but its reminding me of a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...


Why does he think it's a blip? We know for a fact hospital admissions are going to go up if you ease a lockdown, as will hospitalizations and deaths.
 
twosips said:
Hmmm... sensing a slight rise again?
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Do you enjoy looking for bad news? 177 deaths in hospital announced we are awaiting the number in all settings. Last Friday as a comparison the total number in all settings was circa 380. Some good news though. May 21 number of hospital admissions was 697, May 28 the number was 475. May 21 number of ventilators used was 13%, May 28 11%. New cases per day have dropped by around 10% w-o-w and Sweden has the highest death rate this week per capita not the UK. So there is some good news if you look
 
twosips said:
He's a very senior journo claiming he's quoting the Downing Street press briefing. Do you think he's just lying? I guess I can't prove you wrong, but you're basically 'fake news'-ing it with absolutely no proof either. Vallance literally said there's a significant amount of infection in society last night and we are in a fragile state. It mirrors up quite well. I guess this will go nowhere as neither of us can technically prove *anything* we post in this thread at all.

Anyway. Rise in hospital admissions again in London, apparently... obviously he could be lying, and hopefully he is hey!

Click to expand...

We have to open up the economy soon or the country is fucked. Wales and Scotland are now opening up too and they've got areas as bad, if not worse, than the hotspots in England. With track and trace starting up, I think the risk is covered. If it isn't, localised lockdowns will take place.
BTW journalists that use "sources" like in that article are the biggest fakers/WUMs of all. if they have real evidence, follow it up and publish the data that backs up what the sources have said.
 
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Eds said:
Do you enjoy looking for bad news? 177 deaths in hospital announced we are awaiting the number in all settings. Last Friday as a comparison the total number in all settings was circa 380. Some good news though. May 21 number of hospital admissions was 697, May 28 the number was 475. May 21 number of ventilators used was 13%, May 28 11%. New cases per day have dropped by around 10% w-o-w and Sweden has the highest death rate this week per capita not the UK. So there is some good news if you look
Click to expand...

Of course I don't. I see it, and share it. Like i've shared plenty of positive things too about studies and info. Always happy to hear positive stuff :)
 
BlueAnorak said:
As at IT Architect for the last 20 years the data is going to be kept safe by Caldecott Guardians in the NHS/PHE .
Having dealt with Goigle as well as the NHS, I'd trust the NHS/PHE with my data more than I trust Google/Apple.
Click to expand...

doesn't matter if the data is "unhackable" and stored in the most secure system in the world when there is no clarity on what the data can be used for and by who etc. While I can see an advantage of a centralised solution ( infection heat maps for example ) there is a startling lack if clarity about it all. even the T&C's are using american legal terms so arn't even legally binding in this country.

Google and Apple solution doesn't save any real data to be abused. location data is not taken for example, the only thing stored is a an anonymous device identifier that once you click "infected" your 1 id gets sent to a DB, that "infected" DB is then downloaded to devices where all the risk assemsents are done on device and warnings given on device to tell you that you have been near someone who has now got symptoms.

and more importantly would have been up and running far far quicker.
 
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domalino said:
But it's not. Might as well hope the sun doesn't come up tomorrow.

The numbers 100% certainly will go up, the question is about how much, and how quickly and if it tips R over 1 again.
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Yes, he obviously knows it isn't. It's just an expression, mate. It's what humans do. Express positivity/hope in the face of negativity.
 
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