Totally agree didn't mean full terms just a broad based t's and c's hard or soft border, asset and liability split %age, fishing rights and islands vote inclusive or separate etc. Just don't want all the negotiaton crap following on from Brexit if there is a framework to work to should be easier.The problem with that is it allows people who are in reality just not happy with independence to hide forever more behind debate on the 'terms'. Better perhaps to agree broad principles of separation - (totally) separate parliament, deal on currency sharing until euro is adopted, division of debt if required. There may be a case for rebranding hm forces as something else to which all the former UK nations contribute an agreed share of gdp and a possible mini un style system of voting/veto of military action.
I’ve spent a far amount of time in Scotland and don’t get me wrong we’re not attacked in the street but the first pub I went in Edinburgh, last time was there, had poems all over it about killing the English centuries ago.I disagree with that. I can't think of anyone i know that dislikes the english. Not counting wanting a particular generation of the english football team to lose. I'm not sure if you really know what genuine dislike is, if you either believe that to be true or are careless with such a sweeping statement.
And yes there of course are nutters, everyehere, but to apply that to a whole nation, nope.
I’ve spent a far amount of time in Scotland and don’t get me wrong we’re not attacked in the street but the first pub I went in Edinburgh, last time was there, had poems all over it about killing the English centuries ago.
Barmaid took half an age to come to us on purpose.
General attitudes have been a little unpleasant.
It’s not that bad but there is a general dislike, that isn’t reciprocated from England to Scotland.
Similarly with Wales, during the 6 nations my mate who’s married to a welsh girl got smacked in a pub and he’s about 5ft and never had a fight in his life.
Again it’s not pure hatred, more a general moderate dislike.
Why because people are telling you it’s a bad idea?
Scotland can go but a border will be going up and you’ll spend significant time outside of the UK and EU.
I’m warming to the idea of an independent England, at least the left will be hammered even further and the sniping from Scotland and Wales will stop.
What happens with fiscal control when one country wants trident and the other three dont?That is because there is a feeling in scotland and Wales that they are owned and governed by England.
its an emotional not economic argument .
I would rather turn parliament into an English parliament and have all 4 countries powers for taxation and laws .
all 4 meet as part of the uk in one house rotating between each country to make decisions as a uk but by In large give each country fiscal control.
Do you read any of the stuff you post before you click send?Scotland currently has membership of the Eu and has been a member for47 years.... why would they need to spend a significant amount of time outside it? The Eu members have already said that they would welcome an application from Scotland.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51342714
However he warned that any future entry bid on the part of an independent Scotland would not be automatically accepted - "formalities" and treaty agreements would still need to be adhered to.
The entire process, from application for membership to membership has typically taken about a decade, although some countries, notably Sweden, Finland, and Austria have been faster, taking only a few years.
Makes you wonder why they bother having an office in Brussels if they don’t deal with the EU.Do you read any of the stuff you post before you click send?
Also there’s this taken from Wiki :
Scotland as a political entity hasn’t dealt with the Brussels for that period, it’s almost all been covered by London as the UK.
Makes you wonder why they bother having an office in Brussels if they don’t deal with the EU.
https://www.gov.scot/policies/international-relations/international-offices-brussels/
Yes.Did you read what I wrote?
What do you think that office is for?
Exactly right.The fact is the timescale for an independent Scotland rejoining the EU is unknown. The only facts are that their is some 'emotional' warmth from the EU to allow Scotland to rejoin but that must be subject to:
1) A legal referendum result
2) due process within the EU and support from all members
We don't know wether Scotland could be fast tracked because of the manner of its exit (against the will of the people of Scotland), We don't know wether it would have to meet all fiscal measures as if it was a new member. We don't know much. So any projections that it will be fast or it will be in 10 years time are guesswork based on the political beliefs of whoever is projecting them.
It will be interesting to see how this is 'shaped' as part of any independence campaign.
Unfortunately there is a great deal of that on this thread.Exactly right.
Anyone who thinks they know otherwise is making it up.
And do you think they have absolutely any influence of the political decisions and the specifics involving the relationship in law and trade and regulations between the UK-EU, or are they a lesser version of an embassy that’s just trying to make some friends?Yes.
I would say they have “promoted Scottish interests and engaged with EU institutions, member states and other European organisations for over 20 years to ensure Scotland’s voice is heard.” At least that’s what they say they have done.
@west didsblueUnfortunately there is a great deal of that on this thread.
How many of those were already members and started having discussions about maintaining membership following an involuntary withdrawal?@west didsblue
The fastest countries who have ever gained entry to the EU took years, the average is decades.
The countries who were fast tracked had a deficit-GDP of around the target for EU membership, 3%.
Scotland is double that and following Coronavirus and Brexit is probably going to be at least 3 times but even if, say by some miracle, they are quickest fast track in history, it will still take years from a vote for independence to joining the EU.
They’d have to essentially beg London to give them a transition period taking years, which, considering there’s currently more budget spent per capita than England, would be unlikely, or incredibly generous, which, knowing the Tories as we do, is highly unlikely.
You two can waffle on about “nobody knows” but we can look at about 20 countries that have joined the EU already, to see how long it’s taken and what you have to do to join.
Neither of your two options.And do you think they have absolutely any influence of the political decisions and the specifics involving the relationship in law and trade and regulations between the UK-EU, or are they a lesser version of an embassy that’s just trying to make some friends?
And who re-joined under an independent Scotland's circumstances? And before you say it doesn't matter. You just can't know that. Its a belief you hold which is fair enough.@west didsblue
The fastest countries who have ever gained entry to the EU took years, the average is decades.
The countries who were fast tracked had a deficit-GDP of around the target for EU membership, 3%.
Scotland is double that and following Coronavirus and Brexit is probably going to be at least 3 times but even if, say by some miracle, they are quickest fast track in history, it will still take years from a vote for independence to joining the EU.
They’d have to essentially beg London to give them a transition period taking years, which, considering there’s currently more budget spent per capita than England, would be unlikely, or incredibly generous, which, knowing the Tories as we do, is highly unlikely.
You two can waffle on about “nobody knows” but we can look at about 20 countries that have joined the EU already, to see how long it’s taken and what you have to do to join.
snap.How many of those were already members and started having discussions about maintaining membership following an involuntary withdrawal?
For that reason Scotland would be in a different position to any other country that has previously joined and there is no information available to base a judgment on how the EU would treat such an applicant.
Scotland isn’t already a member, the UK is and all agreements are with the UK as a whole.How many of those were already members and started having discussions about maintaining membership following an involuntary withdrawal?
For that reason Scotland would be in a different position to any other country that has previously joined and there is no information available to base a judgment on how the EU would treat such an applicant.
What’s it for then?Neither of your two options.