Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
No I said its as biased as you.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Ok. So where is it wrong, I have my own views? If its so one sided that should be easy.
Thats fair, and while i don't disagree on your point about timing as such, that really is not for anyone to determine other than the Scots, through whoever they elect in the devolved parliament. Why wait for one shitshow to fully unfold to start another (in hope it gets you out of the first one) you could say.
Despite the bluster, Nolicola will absolutely welcome Boris 'refusing' to allow one, as it both buys her time and reactionary support. He might however have been bettervoff calling her bluff though, time will tell i guess.
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Nigel, Nick, Nicola...not quite sure what it is about those names
Ancient Citizen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 15,712
There are approx 3.7 million EU citizens in the UK, at the last count, so only
a small percentage of these appear to have gone to Scotland by that reckoning. Only my opinion, but even in the EU, I can't see millions wanting to reside there, still, unless the PM grants another ref, which I doubt, it's all academic anyway.
I have said, the claims of the false deficit is a conspiracy.
It reads as “Scotland doesn’t have a deficit, it’s being made up but if it did, it’d be entirely England’s fault”.
He is Nick Griffin in troosers.
And i certainly do think ukip were just as bad as the bnp, just better-spoken. Brexit party, too short lived to truly make that claim on in all fairness, but my point stands, they havnt just disappeared, they have just backed more credible horses.
Time will certainly tell you’re right.
I am sticking to my point on when the referendum should take place though. The Scottish voted to stay in the U.K. for a “generation” (Sturgeon and Salmond’s words). They have no right to call one every few years until they get what they want but I do see how the landscape has changed through Brexit. A compromise is to put one into place for the next Parliamentary Term and wait for Brexit to settle.
It would be totally unfair for them to demand one right in the aftermath of Brexit, whilst the U.K. is scrambling around for trade deals, it would also be suicidal for Scotland too, but then again that isn’t a surprise.
Again, it’s just not true. UKIP was a right wing party, not centre right but not fascist. The BNP was a fascist group and they were banned from UKIP.
If I came out and said the n word I’d be kicked out of UKIP as a potential candidate, I’d have been offered a place at the BNP though.
It’s a little like comparing Corbyn to communists, he’s on that side of the aisle but it’s disingenuous to say he’s the same.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Ok so no meat. Just opinions. Let’s leave it there.
It’s not my opinion, Scotland’s deficit has been reported and BFS have said it’s false. It’s their conspiracy and I’m just stating they’ve got no evidence for their claim.
Who are you trying to convince, exactly? You surely should be able to understand me.
In the same way that when you see an independence march, you see torches and pitchforks aimed at the English. Or when you see an 18th century poem in a tourist pub in Edinburgh, or an snp speech on autonomy, you see a hatred against the english. However many times anyone tells you that isn't the case, that is what you choose to believe.
Similarly, when i hear ukip, all i hear is the bnp, with slightly (and i fucking stress slightly) less colourful language. Same biggotry. With a a bit of a part-faux economic arguement to cloak it. ditto re brexit party, and the bulk of the arguements on 'freeing' the uk. When someone tells me that getting to pass judgement as a birth right on who should have what rights, based on where they are born, is not xenophobic, all i see is xenophobia.
Sorry, but i will stick with that, bnp/ukip, same sides of the same coin, one has just been slightly more polished, thats all.
But the difference is I’m consistent and against both of those movements, and nationalism in general.
Nationalism is nationalism and I dislike it in all forms, it’s just a shame others don’t when their flavour happens to have centre left economic policies.
But accuracy is important within that opposition to it and it is very obvious, even to some Indy supporters in here, that Salmond hated the English more and Sturgeon, whilst possibly still doing so, is very much a moderate compared to her predecessor, which says it all really.
The same with UKIP and the BNP, they share ideas but UKIP is comfortably more moderate. I don’t like either but I despise the BNP more. Just as I despise neo Nazis more than the EDL.
Farage wanted to limit immigration to very low numbers, Griffin said “eventually we’ll have the send them all back”. There’s a world of difference in both statements.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
Democracy and wanting away from a political union you no longer like or want to be a part of.........it's a funny old game ;-)
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
So having made the leap in my own mind that ultimately, Scottish independence within the EU is preferable to the status quo, I do look at the steps needed to get there and my biggest concern is ‘are the Scottish government capable of delivering this‘. Will they put together a proposition that will get the support of the nation behind it? How credible, detailed will it be? So many minefields. I would love that they got their ducks in a row with the EU so they could demonstrate a flight path in. I would love a detailed and credible plan that shows the implications of a sterling transition to Euro and a sterling to new currency to euro, the pros and cons of each. How will they negotiate a divorce settlement? what will be the economic 5 year plan look like? Will we get all that. Almost certainly no.
My big question is do they have the bandwidth, the expertise and pure mippage to do this? So I joined the SNP party today and will soon find out what the ground floor looks like.
My big question is do they have the bandwidth, the expertise and pure mippage to do this? So I joined the SNP party today and will soon find out what the ground floor looks like.
And despite it all, the polls (if polls are anything to believe) continue to show the same thing.
news.stv.tv
SNP ‘set for majority’ at 2021 Scottish Parliament election
The STV/Ipsos MORI survey found that more than twice as many people intend to vote for the SNP than the Scottish Conservatives.
news.stv.tv
All the right questions to be asking and if, at the end of those questions, you think it’s worth it, then ultimately, that’s your right to that opinion/vote.
If someone told you 15 years ago that in 2020 Labour would be third in Scotland and comfortably behind the Tories, you’d have laughed in their face. What a sorry state of affairs.And despite it all, the polls (if polls are anything to believe) continue to show the same thing.
SNP ‘set for majority’ at 2021 Scottish Parliament election
The STV/Ipsos MORI survey found that more than twice as many people intend to vote for the SNP than the Scottish Conservatives.
Indeed.
If someone told me today they stand any chance of getting back to being a dominant party, i would probably equally laugh it off (in disbelief rather than glee). Will see in 15 years perhaps.
mancity2012_eamo
Well-Known Member
IMO the most sensible opinion you’ve offered on this thread.
From my Hibernian aspect, I’ve followed the logic of my Caledonian brethren on here and found no hypocrisy nor left wing nationalism in the logic they offer for their leanings in the choices offered to them.
Not all arguments are purely economical but, In their shoes, I would be asking how is best to limit the damage long term, from leaving the EU.
By remaining in a smaller Union or exiting it and hoping to rejoin a bigger Union again.
From an economical view it would come down to which option is more damaging and long term, but there is an emotive element to it too.
Good luck to all involved.
There are no easy decisions and no quick fixes.