Political relations between UK-EU

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
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I'm not sure what question you are answering. If its 'how would you run a traditional large change programme' then yes what you have documented is pretty reasonable. The development of a target operating model 'up front' is crucial as you need to know what the fuck it is you are attempting to deliver.

If the question is, how would you of used Programme management disciplines to deliver Brexit, then thats a different question. What was needed up front to develop a TOM would have been difficult and protracted. A better way of doing it would have been to form a small, senior, empowered, cross party steering group to consider the options and whip their respective parties into line. Perhaps with some discussion, some elements of a solution could have been found to appease Scotland and built a better solution to NI but who knows?

I cant help feeling that whatever the option put forward, it would have been too aligned to the EU for half the stakeholders and not aligned enough for the other half. A year or even 18 months of painful option wrangling and trying to get as many on side as possible would have made everything that followed a great deal easier.

I have significant doubts though that May/Corbyn would have been capable of leading such an activity, particularly considering the right wing of her party and various terrorists. After all, if you remember there was a process through HOC to vote on options and look how that turned out. So to make it work and achieve an operating model that the country could get behind required a very different type of politics than the incumbents were capable of providing leadership for.

In you response to Vic, you made all of that sound straightforward but I think it was anything but and explains why so much has been kicked down the road. Thoughts?

Once established though the workstreams are a great deal easier as they have a good handle on scope and what it is they are setting out to achieve.

One element which has been particularly badly done is readiness testing. In the past I have set up a matrix of workstreams on programmes both 'vertical' ones with their own scope of work and then 'horizontal' ones that offer a 'shared service' to each of the vertical workstreams. Typically this would include business readiness testing which would ensure all vertical workstreams are independently assessed before they can be given a go decision.

Big subject but all theoretical and wont change an atom.

So we now need a workstream to test whether the workstreams are ready...

The problem is that all this is not in a closed corporate environment. It's in a febrile political setting (and that's just within the government) where half the people involved are not just resistant to change but bloody hostile (perhaps - unlike mcfc1632 who's so professional his own views wouldn't come into it - including most of the people recruited to the workstreams).

And with a government that doesn't listen anyway (as, for example, if you find your neighbours want to put two storeys on top of their house and now don't need planning consent) - everyone told the government it was a crap idea but they've done it anyway.

I've been on a task and finish group that came up with the best solution to a political problem (a built facility) - only for the political leaders to bottle out in the face of public opposition and actually say "we should have told you not to put this anywhere near people".
 
Sorry Vic

You are not understanding how an options appraisal is done in the context of this exchange
I didn't think I was. I was applying the concept to a different context. (To wit, the paucity of information about how many ways to do Brexit there might be when people had to tick Remain or Leave.)
 
I've no idea what the point is. I only bother to correct nonsensical comments about what Labour could have done differently, and how many more people with opposing views might have been pissed off.
Now thats just twisting words and is naughty. I forgive you though. I said they could have been honest and either supported leave or remain. Those are the only choices there are. They sat on the fence. Am I still being nonsensical?
 
So we now need a workstream to test whether the workstreams are ready...

The problem is that all this is not in a closed corporate environment. It's in a febrile political setting (and that's just within the government) where half the people involved are not just resistant to change but bloody hostile (perhaps - unlike mcfc1632 who's so professional his own views wouldn't come into it - including most of the people recruited to the workstreams).

And with a government that doesn't listen anyway (as, for example, if you find your neighbours want to put two storeys on top of their house and now don't need planning consent) - everyone told the government it was a crap idea but they've done it anyway.

I've been on a task and finish group that came up with the best solution to a political problem (a built facility) - only for the political leaders to bottle out in the face of public opposition and actually say "we should have told you not to put this anywhere near people".
Thats a response from someone who has never been near a sizeable programme of change.
Workstreams are protected and do not operate in a febrile political environment. Thats the point.
 
Now thats just twisting words and is naughty. I forgive you though. I said they could have been honest and either supported leave or remain. Those are the only choices there are. They sat on the fence. Am I still being nonsensical?
I'm saying it was nonsensical to think that Labour's choosing to support leave or remain would have got more votes than sitting on the fence.
 
Great to see everyone playing nice with each other in here, recently.

Much more interesting.
Informative.
Civil.

If this is the future maybe Brexit isn’t so bad ;-)
 
Well, I assume not intended, but that "options appraisal" bit justifies the attempt to stop Brexit.

10 options - none of them put to the people, and certainly not the one we've got.

I'll take the usual crap for saying "Vote Leave (there are 10 options available)" would have gone well on a bus.
Nope

It really doesn't

I am just able to be objective and professional in what I do for a living
 
play nice with the other children when you get the chance.
You’ll get plenty of chances then.
Seeing the desire for some posters to 'do me down / prove me wrong' on how to manage major change programmes - I seem to be getting plenty of chances to play with children at the moment ;-)

And - FFS (not aimed at you) - that was a bit of fun

If only others could follow suit
 
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And the Daily Express wakes up:

Brexit deal betrayal as 'crucial section' missing from text to benefit Macron and Merkel

BORIS JOHNSON's Brexit trade deal does not include an EU-wide arrangement for financial services because France and Germany wanted to focus on goods, which was to their economic advantage, the former director of Special Projects at Vote Leave has claimed.

Hmmmm

So for years you and others have banged on about Daily Express readers

But, I can really only remember links from the Express being posted by Remainers

I do not think that there is a single Leave poster on here unaware of the position of FS in this deal

Vic - serious question

Are you just goading- becoming a WUM?

Because if not, you might want to 'think about it.....'
 
Thats a response from someone who has never been near a sizeable programme of change.
Workstreams are protected and do not operate in a febrile political environment. Thats the point.
Well, one's said "major" and another has said "sizeable", so I'd be interested in how they're defined. But I'll happily bow to those who have done what they call sizeable.

I fail to see how any Brexit-related work stream could be protected from the political environment.

Let's face it, most change management begins with a change that someone has already decided ought to happen, and they won't take kindly to any consultation that fails to agree that it's worth doing, and most end with a change that fails to deliver the expected outcome. Congratulations if your sizeable programmes have been different.
 
Hmmmm

So for years you and others have banged on about Daily Express readers

But, I can really only remember links from the Express being posted by Remainers

I do not think that there is a single Leave poster on here unaware of the position of FS in this deal

Vic - serious question

Are you just goading- becoming a WUM?

Because if not, you might want to 'think about it.....'
If everyone knew this was going to happen, there's nothing to get wound up about.

I'm afraid I think there are (or were) several (former?) Leave posters who would be unaware of the position of FS in this deal, and most of them wouldn't care.
 

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