Political relations between UK-EU

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mcfc1632 said:
I guess there may be 2 sides to the story?

Brexit: UK Government denies reports it rejected offer of visa-free EU tours by musicians | HeraldScotland

The original came from - "Citing an EU source close to negotiations, the Independent reported that a “standard” proposal to exempt performers for 90 days was turned down by the UK.........."

Perhaps not the most trustworthy source.....?

"However, a Government spokesperson has described the reports as “misleading speculation”.

They said: “The UK pushed for a more ambitious agreement with the EU on the temporary movement of business travellers, which would have covered musicians and others, but our proposals were rejected by the EU.”

Equally - possibly not a fully reliable source - but there does seem to be a preoccupation on here to look for the worst.

Now as a Leave supporter that is still feeling very happy with the outcome, I do take a bit of comfort that as we approach mid-January all we seem to be getting is bits and pieces of discomfort stories - and still that apocalypse is being a bit shy

And yes - proper planning and management of Brexit would have identified this visa issue and ensured that it was sorted before go-live

May, Robbins and Hammond (Remainers) have so much to be responsible for.
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Struggling a bit with that. How can visa agreements now have something to do with May and Robbins when they’ve had nothing to do with negotiating the current deal, we didn’t even get to implementing their withdrawal agreement.
 
meltonblue said:
Struggling a bit with that. How can visa agreements now have something to do with May and Robbins when they’ve had nothing to do with negotiating the current deal, we didn’t even get to implementing their withdrawal agreement.
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Projection.
 
aguero93:20 said:
100 year long failing we need to make up for. The cost doesn't matter to me.
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I agree there’s 100 years we need to make up for and if you read my exchanges recently with AWG in the Irish thread you’ll see that my take on the first 50-70 years of an Irish State may conclude a different meaning on that making up than your own. (Won’t presume what you mean).

My views on how we attract citizens of the North into a 32 county Ireland might not be typical of all Irishmen but I do think the modern generations north and south genuinely want to detach themselves from a failed past way of doing things.

I remember hearing the Parnell and Talbot Street bombings in 1974 as I walked home from school, having stayed back playing basketball.
I remember the chaos in our house when I got home as first my mother was convinced my brother would have been walking past on his way to the train Amiens Street station, coming home from work.

Luckily he went to the station before it that day as it the train would be less packed. He arrived home safe.
Then when my sister didn’t come home and there was no word from her the panic started to set in.
My other two sisters were sent in on the bus to the morgue. There was a dark haired girl very similar to my sister, shown to them and they were convinced it was her, at first. They looked again. It wasn’t her.
I was ten going on eleven and had been sent to bed but remained awake listening when my two sisters arrived home hysterical at the same time as my other sister rolled up on the back of her then boyfriend’s motorcycle. All hell broke loose in our house as they went for her wondering why she hadn’t contacted the house or come home earlier.

A small saga from my childhood. Imagine the shit people in Belfast went through all those years.

I love the notion of a United Ireland Aguero but I would never have it at any cost.
 
meltonblue said:
Struggling a bit with that. How can visa agreements now have something to do with May and Robbins when they’ve had nothing to do with negotiating the current deal, we didn’t even get to implementing their withdrawal agreement.
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Well - sorry - it really is the case and their responsibility/failing.

I did explain the reasons in my long post earlier - e.g. the requirement for such visa or exemptions would have been registered within the HO programme plan and options for a solution identified years ago. Then it would have been within the scope of the negotiations.

But May/Hammond prevented that happening.

But too late for me to go into that again in detail - maybe tomorrow
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I agree there’s 100 years we need to make up for and if you read my exchanges recently with AWG in the Irish thread you’ll see that my take on the first 50-70 years of an Irish State may conclude a different meaning on that making up than your own. (Won’t presume what you mean).

My views on how we attract citizens of the North into a 32 county Ireland might not be typical of all Irishmen but I do think the modern generations north and south genuinely want to detach themselves from a failed past way of doing things.

I remember hearing the Parnell and Talbot Street bombings in 1974 as I walked home from school, having stayed back playing basketball.
I remember the chaos in our house when I got home as first my mother was convinced my brother would have been walking past on his way to the train Amiens Street station, coming home from work.

Luckily he went to the station before it that day as it the train would be less packed. He arrived home safe.
Then when my sister didn’t come home and there was no word from her the panic started to set in.
My other two sisters were sent in on the bus to the morgue. There was a dark haired girl very similar to my sister, shown to them and they were convinced it was her, at first. They looked again. It wasn’t her.
I was ten going on eleven and had been sent to bed but remained awake listening when my two sisters arrived home hysterical at the same time as my other sister rolled up on the back of her then boyfriend’s motorcycle. All hell broke loose in our house as they went for her wondering why she hadn’t contacted the house or come home earlier.

A small saga from my childhood. Imagine the shit people in Belfast went through all those years.

I love the notion of a United Ireland Aguero but I would never have it at any cost.
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It's any cost for me Eamo, we left half a million citizens behind and we betrayed them. I grew up through the bombings too, never let the fuckers scare me though.
 
journolud said:
Looks like for reasons that are hard to fathom the government asked for something illogical and probably unreasonable, the musicians are collateral damage
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The real story will come out in the wash I am sure - and I would hope a resolution is sorted soon.

My money is on:

a) It was not identified as a real requirement early enough (i.e. 2017-2019 - May/Hammond's fault) so it was not in the mainstream negotiations in 2020 - there would have been 'bigger ticket items'

b) There will be many many other such things that will emerge - i.e. lots of inconveniences because they were not a focus of the 2020 negotiations because they were not captured on a requirements register in 2017-2019.
 
aguero93:20 said:
It's any cost for me Eamo, we left half a million citizens behind and we betrayed them. I grew up through the bombings too, never let the fuckers scare me though.
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For my Irish in-laws it’s very much a case of when rather than if, but the economic aspect of it is a massive factor in when the right time will be.
 
aguero93:20 said:
It's any cost for me Eamo, we left half a million citizens behind and we betrayed them. I grew up through the bombings too, never let the fuckers scare me though.
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You do it wrong and it will be as bad as agreeing to a border commission that never had any intention of following up on what it was supposed to do.

Christ when you think about it, Johnson kicking the can down the road with the border in the Irish Sea has a lot of similarities in approach.

For me the modern North needs to be convinced by us that they will have a better future with us. (Perhaps through the EU)
Whatever happens it needs to be permanent.

There was a lot of Protestants down south that were involved in push for a 32 county Ireland in a fairer socialist society that were completely forgotten about and left high and dry when De Valera jumped into bed with the clergy.

There were terrible mistakes made by both sides in the last 100 years.
If there is to be a sustainable future then an objective look at our history is needed. Lessons should be learned including how to deal with untrustworthy British governments.
 
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