Political relations between UK-EU

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
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Making the argument that a sovereign nation being in control of it’s own immigration policy is not a good thing is not a vote winner guys. You are divorced from the political reality of this policy.
 
Ban-jani said:
Or the way to look at it is flexible and adaptable to our needs?

The reason there is an ambiguous jobs shortage option is precisely because it can be changed.
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It is determined by Govt officials, by definition this is neither flexible nor adaptable.

We are a Services economy, services are people, this is an attempt by the State to manage the economy. Just as Brexit is an attempt to manage new friction in trade, this is an attempt to manage friction in people.

You cannot manage friction anywhere near to the same efficiency as you can by eliminating friction. You eliminate friction by removing Govt from the equation. This is even more true with countries and economies in close proximity to ourselves.

That is just the reality.
 
Ban-jani said:
Learning English?

I think it is perfectly acceptable for anyone coming to learn our language before doing so.

It is paramount to effectively integrate arrivals.
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Learn the language, get a 'sponsor', (maybe have to pay them a 'fee'), pay a grand for visa, pass a Britishness' test, have £1500 spare savings.......
How many people do you know, that work abroad, speak the language of said country?
I doubt @SWP's back has test standard Arabic? I have family working in Dubai, Norway, Poland and liverpool and not one of them can speak the local lingo.
 
stonerblue said:
Learn the language, get a 'sponsor', (maybe have to pay them a 'fee'), pay a grand for visa, pass a Britishness' test, have £1500 spare savings.......
How many people do you know, that work abroad, speak the language of said country?
I doubt @SWP's back has test standard Arabic? I have family working in Dubai, Norway, Poland and liverpool and not one of them can speak the local lingo.
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I mean, the idea the English need to learn the language before they can work in a different country is hilarious, none of us would leave this island and I include myself in that.
 
Ban-jani said:
This is just wishful thinking on your part.

There’s far too much conflict for this to take place any time soon.

I don’t think they’ll ever vote on it to be honest.
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Well if you read my history on the subject you’ll see it is not wishful thinking on my part.
The rest is just your opinion. That’s fair enough.
 
Ban-jani said:
Every country on the planet controls immigration Bob, for a long time we’ve had a huge amount of people coming that didn’t have the skills we need for the economy, primarily in STEM.

I understand you don’t appreciate the nation state and want no barriers at all but people in communities do want their communities to stay the same and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Controlling the numbers coming isn’t dumb, allowing 500,000 net in per year is dumb and even the Labour Party acknowledge they fucked up.

You’re saying it’s going to be a mess without even giving it a try, points based systems have and do work elsewhere around the world.
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Sorry BJ - whilst I fully agree with you - and the points based system is not only the most sensible method (as recognised around the world) and also get's rid of the inherent discrimination of FOM - the posts this morning seem to indicate that this could be another day of the same old faces insisting that their way is 'law' - you will have to deal with the topic by yourself

The good news for me is that the way the thread seems to have merged with the Irish politics thread and people are debating immigration (again) suggests that this is another day where the apocalypse is stubbornly hiding
 
Ban-jani said:
Surely that’s incredibly subjective?

It’s actually a poor piece of legislation as it’s based on an opinion, based on opinion polls.

Anyway, I would rather NI stayed in the UK as it’s a great country but given the historical connections, a united Ireland isn’t something I am necessarily against, if that’s what they want, certainly nowhere near to the same degree of being against Scotland going.

I only wish the views in NI could swap with Scotland, as they appear to want to stay more.
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I think you miss the genius of the GFA and how difficult it was to put together a bit of legislation as you refer to it, that satisfied the aspirations of both communities in the North, all in the South and the foresight of carrying those aspirations into a future electorate.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Sorry BJ - whilst I fully agree with you - and the points based system is not only the most sensible method (as recognised around the world) and also get's rid of the inherent discrimination of FOM - the posts this morning seem to indicate that this could be another day of the same old faces insisting that their way is 'law' - you will have to deal with the topic by yourself

The good news for me is that the way the thread seems to have merged with the Irish politics thread and people are debating immigration (again) suggests that this is another day where the apocalypse is stubbornly hiding
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I think the future of NI is valid in this thread.
If mods think it should be in the Irish thread, I’ve no problem discussing it there.
 
BobKowalski said:
Evolution over time, a natural progression to an all Ireland supply chain economy where the differences between North and South become indistinguishable and the differences between NI and GB become more pronounced.

A longer time span to achieve unification, but one where the chances of success are higher than a binary referendum over the next few years.

Unionists in the North will seek to break the NI protocols as Brexit pushes the North and South together. For Unionists, and by that I mean hardcore Unionists, a land border to re-emphasis the divide is the only play left. I like to think it’s doomed to failure, but it can’t be ruled out entirely.

Mad to think the DUP supported Brexit, even madder that they still do in principle.
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Without wishing to further divert the thread with history, but as it was when a border commission was first set up a hundred years ago, currently 4 of the 6 counties have a Catholic majority.

The border was never a logical solution and still isn’t.
 
BobKowalski said:
Well, I doubt it given France is next door and Somalia isn’t. The practical barriers to a Somalian nurse are likely to be higher than to a French nurse. I am quite happy though to make an immigration policy that gives help to a Somalian nurse to overcome any practical barriers.

In economic terms though our policy is stupid. All countries tend to have a more generous immigration policy with its neighbours to facilitate work, travel and living, because like trade, immigration is often local ie just under half of our immigration came from Europe and the rest from everywhere else.

With the former colonies you had economic and cultural ties which tended to push immigration, just as say France had with Algeria.
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Send all the Irish nurses home. We could do with them at the moment.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Oh dear......

I will leave you to take comfort in your "...more than a little knowledge" - although I doubt it is in change management

But - please excuse me at having a good chuckle - but to be fair - you just have just not understood the order properly
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Like I said, I’m not your target audience with that :) I think we’re both pretty clear on that now.
 
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