Political relations between UK-EU

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One wise Government adviser tells me tonight that this is not “the kind of approach we'd have taken a few months ago”. They are right of course.

Exclusive: Britain ready to help out EU on Covid vaccines.’


 
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Just out on interest, are those figures for the EU itself, or the total funding of all members of the EU? Because I know Germany put a lot of money in, so it'd be interesting to see where just Germany would be on that per capita scale. I imagine it would be another example of Northern Europe paying.
 
I wonder how long Ursula von der Leyen
will last as EU Commission President? Especially as Merkel isn't st all impressed .
What a complete and total fuck fest.
From total EU incompetence in trying to run a vaccine programme on the cheap (they crowed about this if I remember correctly), thru demanding that EU deaths be exported to the UK (we've got enough of our own thanks) to putting a bomb under the Northern Ireland agreement. What a fecking shambles.
 
I'm not sure who's being mischievous but that does not include funding by EU member states. (At least £25 per capita from states, the EIB and the Commission, plus a third more from other donors).
 
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Still completely missing the point Lets make it very simple are Norway or Switzerland or Northern Ireland in the EU ? Are they in the Single Market? 2 yes or no questions So yes or no to both will be fine.
Am I now, how much is Britain paying for single market access?
Framing a question that you demand a yes or no answer for won't cut
it I'm afraid, but I'll play along.

Norway and Switzerland are in the single market, check out the conditions.
Northern Ireland is not in the EU, it is a part of the United Kingdom.
These links are from 2016, when we were members, Norway pays, a considerable sum to the EU, Switzerland less. How much do we pay?

The chart at the bottom of this gives details;
 
Fair enough mate and I completely agree.

It seems there’s a very good relationship with Dublin and London these days and both got their heads together in response.

It’s pretty shameful by Brussels and I am pretty shocked at their behaviour.
Really? Seems right in line.
 
EU have indeed scored a spectacular own goal these last days - and it says something that they have been able to make the leaders of this government appear controlled and reasonable - even effective on this subject. Some feat that.

The Sunday papers are full on outing the EU's incompetence and aggressive (even spiteful?) behaviour.

From the Guardian (we know where there bias is):

How EU’s floundering vaccine effort hit a fresh crisis with exports row​

From the Observer:

The European commission’s U-turn over its reckless plan to effectively blockade the Ireland-Northern Ireland border is the latest humiliation suffered by Brussels amid an escalating firestorm sparked by Covid-19 vaccine supply shortages across Europe. The commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has made a series of mistakes and misjudgments in handling the pandemic over the past year. This latest blunder will intensify doubts about her leadership.

And hearing on the Marr show that the media across TU countries are not favourable to the EU either
 
There’s a difference, some who support EU membership, ie me, do so on the premise only of it being beneficial to the UK but fundamentally our loyalties lie with our country. Now the EU aren’t acting in our benefit and are acting in aggression towards us, my natural position is one of defence.
Get ready for more of this, the destabilisation will continue with their attempts to essentially annex Scotland through that fucking stooge.
 
Get ready for more of this, the destabilisation will continue with their attempts to essentially annex Scotland through that fucking stooge.
We won’t be annexed by anyone thanks ,not that anyone is trying,we’ll decide for ourselves on what we, ie voters in Scotland, think is is best just as we did last time. Thanks for your concern though.
 
Whilst the focus of this thread is the relations between the EU and UK following Brexit - the situation is also impacted by how relationships develop between the EU and other countries - Ireland and France are important examples.

It is interesting that the EU has caused such frustrations across the 27 members with the incompetence of their vaccine procurement and management of rollout - and there is no way that they were ever going to distract effectively by their aggression towards the UK and AZ.

This article in the Irish Times I guess is typical:

Vaccine fiasco plays into Johnson's hands - Independent.ie

A couple of extracts:

"Brussels was determined to force AstraZeneca to its knees at the start of the week but by the end of it, it was the European Union which was left humiliated.

Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, is facing calls to resign amid accusations of a "vaccine nationalism" and fierce criticism in her home country of Germany."

"Her decision to trigger Article 16 of the Brexit treaty's Northern Irish protocol achieved the once unimaginable feat of uniting an unimpressed Michel Barnier, Taoiseach Micheál Martin and British prime minister Boris Johnson against her.

Ms von der Leyen ordered a U-turn late on Friday night and blamed the crisis on "an oversight", but the damage was done. Brussels had spiralled out of control, turning its own member states against it and ignoring their instructions.

It should have been very different. How had Ms von der Leyen managed to turn a week that should have been a crowning moment for her administration into such an unmitigated disaster?"
 
They are still trying to think up a reason for the EU demanding an audit of the AZ facility in Belgium to ensure that not one single dose of vaccine is being sent out of the EU, while simultaneously demanding that its facilities in the UK send it 75 million doses.
Lol.
What's even more amusing though, is that Napoleon over in La Belle France
declared on Friday that the Astra vaccine is 'Quasi ineffective.' Germany
said similar. So we get the two biggest members of their club rubbishing
it, yet the club screams about how unjust it is them not receiving it.
Pantomimes like this are a feature of bloated bureaucracy,
I don't think Euroscepticism over there will diminish somehow.
 
"Britain will apply to join a massive 11-nation free-trade bloc of Asia-Pacific countries, it announced Saturday, weeks after leaving the European single market with its departure from the EU."

Britain will apply to join Asia-Pacific free-trade bloc in the wake of Brexit (france24.com)

This is an interesting - if fully expected - development

Would be nice to be in a Trading Bloc
Great news that, the trade minister deserves applause for the progress on
deals, over 60 already, and this in the pipeline.
But other organisations take donkey's years, maybe we should set up a
team for them, to help shorten their processes to months, they could do
with the help.
 
Great news that, the trade minister deserves applause for the progress on
deals, over 60 already, and this in the pipeline.
But other organisations take donkey's years, maybe we should set up a
team for them, to help shorten their processes to months, they could do
with the help.
Personally, it will be refreshing to be part of a Trading Bloc that is not seeking to become a supranational superpower and requiring agreement to full integration by its members
 
Whilst the focus of this thread is the relations between the EU and UK following Brexit - the situation is also impacted by how relationships develop between the EU and other countries - Ireland and France are important examples.

It is interesting that the EU has caused such frustrations across the 27 members with the incompetence of their vaccine procurement and management of rollout - and there is no way that they were ever going to distract effectively by their aggression towards the UK and AZ.

This article in the Irish Times I guess is typical:

Vaccine fiasco plays into Johnson's hands - Independent.ie

A couple of extracts:

"Brussels was determined to force AstraZeneca to its knees at the start of the week but by the end of it, it was the European Union which was left humiliated.

Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, is facing calls to resign amid accusations of a "vaccine nationalism" and fierce criticism in her home country of Germany."

"Her decision to trigger Article 16 of the Brexit treaty's Northern Irish protocol achieved the once unimaginable feat of uniting an unimpressed Michel Barnier, Taoiseach Micheál Martin and British prime minister Boris Johnson against her.

Ms von der Leyen ordered a U-turn late on Friday night and blamed the crisis on "an oversight", but the damage was done. Brussels had spiralled out of control, turning its own member states against it and ignoring their instructions.

It should have been very different. How had Ms von der Leyen managed to turn a week that should have been a crowning moment for her administration into such an unmitigated disaster?"
to be honest, her handling of this has been a disaster. Knee jerk does not begin to describe it. An indication of how much pressure she is under to deliver. There can be no excuse for her threatening to trigger A 16 though.
 
Should they not have been taking such action months ago?
Apparently, they've 'Looked into,' and 'Made enquiries' with this stampede.
Not moving either, just and branches and depots, which has always been the case with many large companies, that's even if it happens, which as yet, it hasn't.
So we're being presented with more might do's and could be's from the Nissan
experts, who recently received the dispiriting news that their CEO said the Brexit news was actually better than what they had.
 
I’ll try and give you an honest answer to all you bring up. I haven’t really kept up with news today but I think I’m informed enough to give you a general response.

I believe the EU have really scored an own goal here.
I don’t believe that this was an issue caused by Brexit and should have been kept separate and between AZ and the EU.
The shambolic handling of this by someone or someones possibly above their pay grades has well and truly made it a Brexit issue.

That’s a big mistake.
I do believe that as you have stressed as one of your reasons for supporting Brexit, the bureaucracy involved in a time of crisis is a drawback to acting quickly.
Not that I’m making Covid out to be a positive for Boris and his government. He got off to a very slow start in his initial response. You’ve been hit hard, but the timing of this vaccine roll out issue is a shot in the arm (sorry) for Brexit in general.
I’m putting this together quickly and I really do hope that statement doesn’t come across as flippant.

Threatening to invoke Article 16 was a bad bad decision and I believe like @BobKowalski that it was never going to happen.

I believe your government acted correctly and am sure communications between yourselves, ourselves and NI would have been going on in the background and the correct diplomatic response was for Martin and Coveney to raise their concerns to the EU.

It is being reported here that Martin made a very strong communication to the EU, possibly Barnier, I don’t know, but RTE news reports through Coveney is that it was a regrettable mistake by the EU and is confident it will not happen again.

My concern, apart from the Covid issue, where the AZ vaccine is the cornerstone of our vaccination program, is that this balls up is exact the kind of thing that the DUP would seek exploit further for their own purposes.
You see NI as effectively being used as a pawn by the EU. There’s no doubt someone messed up big time but ultimately I don’t believe we will allow that happen. Do we have that clout?
Well in matters regarding the NIP and more importantly the GFA I would like to believe, Yes, we have far more of a say than our size would normally dictate.
However I think internally or locally on the island of Ireland as a whole we have far less power over an emboldened DUP, who I do not believe ever had the best interests of the GFA at heart.

So yes, this was a much bigger mistake than, whoever in the EU that called it, thought. Or didn’t think

Regarding the corporate tax issue, they’ve been trying to press us on that for quite a while and I’ve no doubt we will have compromises to make for years to come within this union, but ideologically on the benefits to my country, Ireland, I see membership as far more beneficial in the long run than you do for Britain had you remained.

I think although this was a fuck up, there is no sugar coating it, from an Irish point of view, whereas you may be right with your final statement, I do think perhaps as much for our relationship with yourselves and NI as anything else, that we may well have more of a say than normally expected.

Moving on from this, we were promised 600,000 AZ vaccines by February 15th and now expecting to get perhaps 300,000 a week earlier.
So a compromise. We get to start the program earlier and keep the lines of negotiations open and cordial.

Not the EU’s finest hour, but I think much of the arguments I’ve read in here over this Covid issue and contractual law etc. have taken over the whole Brexit issue and the point scoring is still going on which really adds no genuine information to the thread.

In general I think Covid occupying the airwaves for a while suits Johnson and whoever is keeping him quiet is giving good advice.

Good post and good news on the vaccines.

The Irish PM Martin seems to be adopting a similar approach of calm reflection on TV this morning amidst the frothing media hysteria.

In fairness the UK Govt has also been a model of restraint.
 

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