From that page-No I'm not. The EU has the most comprehensive arrangements but many other blocs are much more than FTAs, some with aspirations to have political pacts. Have a look at the table half way down and you'll see that some have freedom of movement, shared currencies, customs unions, single markets, defence pacts just like the EU. Many of them are integrating more closely as time goes on along the lines of the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_bloc
All the evidence so far points to it being the former and not the latter.Trade blocs can be stand-alone agreements between several states (such as the North American Free Trade Agreement) or part of a regional organization (such as the European Union).
Did you miss the evidence of beaurocracy posted a bit before that post?As January as progressed into February and there is more evidence of EU bureaucracy and incompetence - then the usual suspects are getting more desperate
The way they keep a sharp and hopeful eye out for the apocalypse to arrive and in the meantime have to 'make do' - puts me in mind of Baden-Powell awaiting the relief of Mafeking
I accept from this reply that you now understand that for you to have said earlier:I'm aware of that, but do you also accept that if the mega hard core brexit nutters, you know, the ones who actually wanted this, had voted for May's deal, then the deal would have gone through? Yes or no answer please.
There is no such thing as a standard free trade bloc. The CPTPP is unique as is every other one. I have no objection to the UK pursuing membership if it provides benefits but there is concern that it could have a negative impact on current standards and those standards agreed with our largest trading partner, the EU, as part of our FTA. I suspect discussions will go on for years before any agreement is reached but it's a convenient distraction from the very real issues facing us today as a result of our departure from the European Single Market and Currency Union.From that page-
All the evidence so far points to it being the former and not the latter.
If it turns out to be like the EU and will include FOM, I will vote against it at any election, but, I doubt it will be anything other than a standard free trade bloc, without the additional baggage that come with the EU.
It is good news but once again people need to be proven right so there’s a negative slant put on it.
You know what I meant, it’s a free trade area that’s based solely on trade, without any political implications outside of that trade.There is no such thing as a standard free trade bloc. The CPTPP is unique as is every other one. I have no objection to the UK pursuing membership if it provides benefits but there is concern that it could have a negative impact on current standards and those standards agreed with our largest trading partner, the EU, as part of our FTA. I suspect discussions will go on for years before any agreement is reached but it's a convenient distraction from the very real issues facing us today as a result of our departure from the European Single Market and Currency Union.
TBF - I have been unstinting in my recognition that he deserves a lot of credit for the genuine Brexit outcomeNope. We had Jeremy Fucking Corbyn in charge of the party we vote for. Yay us. What a set of choices that was.
It’s a free trade agreement, we just don’t adhere to the Four Freedoms, it’s the same as Canada having a FTA with the EU.
Of course there are key differences to leaving the Four Freedoms but having tariff free trade is still free trade, it’s the universal term used and with no tariffs that’s what makes it “free”.
I really do not know why people are getting upset about us potentially entering another free trade area with pacific countries, surely it’s good for the country?
You want global free trade so it’s better than not doing it, at this stage, surely?
I did the best I could, spreading EFTA4UK messages to whomever I could reach.
Campaigning doesn't just mean picketing or going door to door. Its not meant in its literal sense, I meant that few if any on here advocated for EFTA membership once the result was made, despite them now saying it should be the organisation the UK should join next (FWIW, I agree that we still should)
I just find it so bizarre that so many 'characters' on here, who advocated to remain after the vote, are now suggesting EFTA is the best compromise. If all remain voters had done that earlier instead of fighting a losing battle to remain, calls for EFTA across the country would have gained more traction, MP's would have picked up on it, Farage would have lost influence (as he was also an EFTA advocate before becoming full brexit) and we'd have left the EU, applied for EFTA, been accepted (Iceland, Liectenstein and Norway were all for us joining. Switzerland were as well but were worried we might dominate the bloc) kept access to the Single Market, but not be tied to the Customs Union, kept all arrangements with the EU, and basically not had to worry about an Article 16 protocol.
It's been quite sobering.
It's not a free trade area based solely on trade and I don't think I've ever called anything a convenient distraction. But other than that I agree that it's worth pursuing but as we only applied for membership yesterday I'd be amazed if we secure membership before the next election.You know what I meant, it’s a free trade area that’s based solely on trade, without any political implications outside of that trade.
P.s I feel you say “it’s a convenient distraction” every time there’s any bit of news that isn’t the impending apocalypse ;-)
This is actually very positive news and will be good for us. We need to look forward, not backwards.
I think you underplay it’s significance to the economy, it’s definitely not a negative as some are making out and will go some way to boosting jobs and industryNo. Non-tariff barriers are the big problem in modern trade. To eliminate them you need two different legal and regulatory zones to cooperate at a deep level, which we don’t want to do and this is why companies in the UK are suddenly drowning in paperwork and the fishing and agricultural sectors are having trouble moving their produce.
You have two choices. 1) Don’t cooperate beyond a superficial level and accept the administrative burden on your industries as well as some direct additional costs along with spending Govt money on customs infrastructure, personnel and all the palaver that goes with it, or 2) cooperate on a common standard and regulatory regime and all the industry problems, the red tape and the extra money on customs infrastructure and personnel disappear over night.
We chose 1) hence all the issues. Every other country aims for 2) because it makes sense. What’s more you don’t even have to adopt the four freedoms to eliminate a lot of these issues. The issues are a deliberate choice made by the UK Govt. They are a feature not a bug.
The CPTPP is a multi-country FTA and that is it. Maybe it will knock off a few tariffs and there is no harm in joining, but it isn’t a big deal for the UK. Our problem lies at home. The CPTPP is a like a two week vacation, but the shit on your doorstep is still there and you have to face it eventually.
That's great!Personally, I’ve always promoted EFTA as an option and I’m pretty sure pre-referendum it polled quite high in terms of support in the public (admittedly, this was before public interest went as big as it did).
The issue is there’s never been a big enough voice pushing for it in parliament. Ultimately, however people voted in the referendum, they’ve been powerless to truly try and shape the direction of travel after it aside from if they wanted the two more extreme options as parliament has kept it a pretty binary choice for the public throughout themselves.
Sorry - have to challenge you on thatYes. But if the group that were formed to force brexit had voted for it, it would have also gone through. And they were from May's own party, proving what a treacherous bunch of cunts they are.
Nice with a bit of spam i believeCan we expect cheap oysters, scallops, langoustines and prawns now that we are the only market for them live.
That's great!
Doesn't excuse everyone else though, does it. FBPE is a thing because people made it so. Certain Parliamentarians at the time even adopted it and still do. A rejoin movement is in the works and will likely gain traction if enough people talk about it.
Politicians do listen to these public trends. Prime examples are the Scottish and the EU referendums. If you really were promoting EFTA then you should be able to attest at how little the discussion on EFTA as an option came up.
They weren't powerless to promote EFTA, they chose to listen to the rabid remain movement instead because the rabid remain movement wanted to remain. EFTA was never considered as a compromise because to them it wasn't. They wanted brexit cancelled, remaining in and status quo ante bellum.
The most I ever saw was a discussion on social media where it was defined as just BRINO by the remainer viewpoint... ...so why didn't they advocate for it! It infuriated me.On the discussion on EFTA, absolutely and I hold parliament to account for that too. You’re right about them swaying to public opinion, they’ve promoted that rather than attempted to inform and change that though.
For a lot of people outside of threads like this that aren’t as invested in the topic, they’ll see it as they’re either in the remain or the leave camp and wouldn’t even be able to describe what EFTA membership entails.
It needed a louder voice (or at least a voice) in parliament to be pushing it.
I think you underplay it’s significance to the economy, it’s definitely not a negative as some are making out and will go some way to boosting jobs and industry
You must have really lost your shit with the EU when they signed off the deal with Mercosur. That 100,000 tonnes of chicken and 99,000 tonnes of beef they want every year means a lot of the Amazon destroyed just to feed the EU.My point was that prioritising trade deals with countries on the other side of the planet isn't the smartest thing to be doing right now. I thought I was pretty clear in that, but I know you like an argument, so carry on.
The EU aren’t exactly our mates after the last two weeks ;-)I didn’t say it was a negative, I said it wouldn’t make a lot of difference.
To be honest, I don’t much care either way. Although, it kind of smacks of the UK trying to find some new mates to hang out with :)