Political relations between UK-EU

[Ancient Citizen]

It’s irrelevant to my point though, all I’m saying is it’s a misleading statement (well, it’s incorrect but I’m ok with just saying misleading!).

On that issue of friction, you can’t draw the conclusions you are already, no one can until the autumn at least. I certainly hope that your prediction is correct though.

Your point is redundant, read the reports from Dover port authority.

This place is simply a whinge fest from a few hardcores hoping, nay
praying, for any snippets of incoming disaster, that's absolutely certain
to to fizzle into nothingness as the days go by.
We are now seeing endless fishing stories, which is utterly laughable, as it's now looks like it's the only one left, this, after years of scorn and ridicule being poured on an industry derided for being a tiny fraction of the economy.
Even that is coming down to a small section of this so called insignificant industry that fishes for molluscs.
The reasons why are out there, water grades being a factor, but like
all other doom scenarios, compromises will be made, and the industry adapts. Quotas are up, watch this space in a year or so.
So, the internet will be scoured as everything continues to defy those
determined to hear from folk about how sad they should be, because
they say so. Another forecast will be put up, debated, outrage will pour forth, and a week or two later, it'll prove a disappointment yet again,
to be filed amongst Lorry parks, vaccines, the EMA, houses in Spain,
and Nissan, as mission aborted.

 

[Rascal]

Libertarianism for the sovereign individuals, authoritarianism for the plebs. They want to turn nation states' tax and legal regimes into something akin to places like Monaco. No general taxation but taxes on their consumption, with state police forces acting as the heavy handed private security of the rich. As always with libertarians it is an extremely cynical and selfish mindset. I don't think I have ever read a libertarian without this hypocrisy at the heart of their belief system. They always want the rules to be disapplied to themselves but deep in the knowledge that to do that would require a stricter regime for others.

Very true, i have always thought of Libertarians as being the product of a childhood where they would not share their toys, but wanted to have your toys.

Selfish sums them up perfectly, I would also add arrogance in the belief that they are somehow better and more deserving than others.

 

[Rascal]

The British public are sleepwalking into an ethno-fascist state ruled by the Tories and the libertarians are the root of all evil...


... because we left a political trading bloc.

No MB, ignore the fucking halfwit you are replying to, he is a clown, the epitome of Dunning Kreuger. He is just being pathetic because I don't take him seriously.

It won't be a Conservative state, the Sovereign Individual has nothing to do with Conservatism. I would gladly take Conservatism over what these Sovereign Individual fanatics fantasise over. Libertarianism btw can be linked to any political belief, whether that be Communism, Fascism, Socialism, Liberalism, whatever.

What the Sovereign Individual proposes would lead to the destruction of the nation state, something no true Conservative would ever countenance. It would lead to the destruction of the very institutions the Conservatives treasure. City states, freeport and trading zones would lead to the eradication of borders, the state would cease to exist. The Sovereign Individual is a person of no state and as a result also of no obligation. There would be no democracy, everything would be decided by the market and as the market exists in cyberspace nobody can control it or regulate it.

This isn't because we left the EU, it is a rather sinister reason behind why those behind Leave EU fought so hard to leave and why certain individuals funded the campaign.

Here read this MB. Also remember I supported leaving the EU so I am no "remoaner" trying to cling to the EU. I am though genuinely concerned about this, because it is fucking sinister and the people involved i really do not trust. People like Hannan. Not even Farage is linked to this although he may have been their useful idiot.

Case 1 – The Tabula Rasa – A Clean Slate – Baker Street Herald

 

[metalblue]

Its amazing that the EU didn't confer with all 3rd party countries over this - the USA and Namibia won't be happy either. Its almost as if leaving the EU means you lose your right to amend and influence EU policy and laws.

What is amazing is that is your take on it. From the letter the EU gave the UK a statement in Sept 2019 to say these live exports where ok and subject to an export health certificate- the UK was happy with that arrangement.

The EU have now changed their mind and said they cannot be exported, regarding class A waters the EU have said “they don’t know but the UK could try” - so it seems they have limited understanding of their own stance here. There was no legislation passed here explicitly for this so no one is complaining in that letter about not being informed as per the tweet but it is a bureaucratic interpretation on a trade that had been carried out with the UK for decades. Remember this new interpretation is counter to the previous advice given by the EU on this trade to the UK...but the legislation hasn’t changed?

And the pro-EU mob are happy enough to support the EU in this? I’m not talking about if they are within their rights to do this but if they are right to do it? What possible justification is there here? Give me one good reason why they have done this, just one.

If my neighbour told me I could park my caravan on his drive and then told me I couldn’t after I’d brought it he would be in his rights to do so but would also a bit of a ****.

 

[BobKowalski]

What is amazing is that is your take on it. From the letter the EU gave the UK a statement in Sept 2019 to say these live exports where ok and subject to an export health certificate- the UK was happy with that arrangement.

The EU have now changed their mind and said they cannot be exported, regarding class A waters the EU have said “they don’t know but the UK could try” - so it seems they have limited understanding of their own stance here. There was no legislation passed here explicitly for this so no one is complaining in that letter about not being informed as per the tweet but it is a bureaucratic interpretation on a trade that had been carried out with the UK for decades. Remember this new interpretation is counter to the previous advice given by the EU on this trade to the UK...but the legislation hasn’t changed?

And the pro-EU mob are happy enough to support the EU in this? I’m not talking about if they are within their rights to do this but if they are right to do it? What possible justification is there here? Give me one good reason why they have done this, just one.

If my neighbour told me I could park my caravan on his drive and then told me I couldn’t after I’d brought it he would be in his rights to do so but would also a bit of a ****.

I think the sooner the UK realises it no longer has any say or influence on EU laws and regulations, but is merely subject to them, the better.

There are going to be lots of restrictions and impositions placed on us and short of us getting around a negotiating table and trying to thrash out a settlement there is nothing we can do about it.

As people have been pointing out for the last four years, we did vote for it.

 

[metalblue]

I think the sooner the UK realises it no longer has any say or influence on EU laws and regulations, but is merely subject to them, the better.

There are going to be lots of restrictions and impositions placed on us and short of us getting around a negotiating table and trying to thrash out a settlement there is nothing we can do about it.

As people have been pointing out for the last four years, we did vote for it.

Completely ignored the point there Bob. They have the right to (because they have) but are they right to in this particular case given they gave the UK assurance/guidance it was ok and previously class B waters were just fine.

It’s almost certainly a consequence of a quick deal where not every I was dotted and T was crossed but that’s not the issue here.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

That wont happen, simply because we have elections. People have a vote and exercise it in this country. I think its pretty clear that British electorate wont allow our welfare state and NHS to be wound down, any party that advocates that just wont get elected. To have a welfare state you need taxes and taxes will evolve like they always have done to ensure they 'capture' enough revenue.

Cant believe I wasted time reading something by Campbell as I cant stand the man, he led the way for the likes of Cummings.

The sooner he disappears off the scene the better rather than stealing a living hanging onto everyone else's coat tails.

You've obviously not read the Conservative Party Manifesto which states that they intend to

Redraw Constituency boundaries (this is called gerrymandering in America) now ask yourself why would they want to do this.

Abolish the fixed term Parliaments Act

Introduce a requirement for people to provide two examples of photographic evidence when voting. What two pieces of photographic evidence do you have?

Make it easier for Brits living abroad to vote by post and remove the 15 year limit on their voting rights.

Continue to support the ''First Past the Post'' system.

Maintain the minimum voting age at 18.

So youre correct in saying that ''people have a vote and exercise it in this country'' ..... but not for much longer.

 

[west didsblue]

Your point is redundant, read the reports from Dover port authority.

This place is simply a whinge fest from a few hardcores hoping, nay
praying, for any snippets of incoming disaster, that's absolutely certain
to to fizzle into nothingness as the days go by.
We are now seeing endless fishing stories, which is utterly laughable, as it's now looks like it's the only one left, this, after years of scorn and ridicule being poured on an industry derided for being a tiny fraction of the economy.
Even that is coming down to a small section of this so called insignificant industry that fishes for molluscs.
The reasons why are out there, water grades being a factor, but like
all other doom scenarios, compromises will be made, and the industry adapts. Quotas are up, watch this space in a year or so.
So, the internet will be scoured as everything continues to defy those
determined to hear from folk about how sad they should be, because
they say so. Another forecast will be put up, debated, outrage will pour forth, and a week or two later, it'll prove a disappointment yet again,
to be filed amongst Lorry parks, vaccines, the EMA, houses in Spain,
and Nissan, as mission aborted.

Your baby pics are tedious. They’re preferable though to your repetitive pointless nonsense posts.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

You've obviously not read the Conservative Party Manifesto which states that they intend to

Redraw Constituency boundaries (this is called gerrymandering in America) now ask yourself why would they want to do this.

Abolish the fixed term Parliaments Act

Introduce a requirement for people to provide two examples of photographic evidence when voting. What two pieces of photographic evidence do you have?

Make it easier for Brits living abroad to vote by post and remove the 15 year limit on their voting rights.

Continue to support the ''First Past the Post'' system.

Maintain the minimum voting age at 18.

So youre correct in saying that ''people have a vote and exercise it in this country'' ..... but not for much longer.

Unlike you to grossly exaggerate things!? lol

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Unlike you to grossly exaggerate things!? lol

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

View attachment 10092

You think we wont be able to vote for much longer!!! lol

 

[metalblue]

You've obviously not read the Conservative Party Manifesto which states that they intend to

Redraw Constituency boundaries (this is called gerrymandering in America) now ask yourself why would they want to do this.

Abolish the fixed term Parliaments Act

Introduce a requirement for people to provide two examples of photographic evidence when voting. What two pieces of photographic evidence do you have?

Make it easier for Brits living abroad to vote by post and remove the 15 year limit on their voting rights.

Continue to support the ''First Past the Post'' system.

Maintain the minimum voting age at 18.

So youre correct in saying that ''people have a vote and exercise it in this country'' ..... but not for much longer.

So what you’re saying is nothing is really changing (except the photo one).

Voting boundaries are periodically redrawn as people move out of cities to surrounding areas or population increases or decrease and constituencies are merged and there are tight rules on how many voters must be in a constituency. It was last done in 2010. The Boundary Commission are responsible and their most recent recommendations in 2018 are not being implemented....why I don’t know, maybe because it would favour Labour more or maybe they think the money it costs could be better spent elsewhere.

How short they memory? Fixed term parliament act was a shambles - it needs going so governments can govern and when they can’t they can call an election.

I do have two pieces of photo evidence but agree this shouldn’t happen if it limits peoples ability to vote so no, I’m against it

Brits abroad giving more the chance to vote increases the people voting not decreasing it which was your closing statement - I don’t care one way or another but I imagine their research has shown they are more likely to vote Tory?

FPTP is a system that works. It isn’t perfect but more are the alternatives. We had a chance to change it and the country said no

Yes we know people under 18 are more likely to vote Labour... so why would they want it? I imagine they could articulate better reasons but that’s probably the nub of the problem. Labours view on responsibility is muddled on this; responsible enough to vote but not responsible for committing terrorism at 16 (or whatever that girl was accused of)

 

[Ban-jani]

If you want to ignore or downplay the central role he had in 2 illegal wars that resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths because you look up to him and like him then its up to you, We shall just have to agree to disagree, the man is a low life and no certainly better than Cummings.

What has Cummings actually done? This bogeyman view of him is weird beyond belief.

He wanted to leave the EU and bent facts to force the vote. Doing so hasn’t cost lives and doing so has at worst made a minor industry at risk, that makes up 0.01% of our GDPR.

Compare it to the Iraq War and it’s not even on the same planet of an issue.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I think the sooner the UK realises it no longer has any say or influence on EU laws and regulations, but is merely subject to them, the better.

There are going to be lots of restrictions and impositions placed on us and short of us getting around a negotiating table and trying to thrash out a settlement there is nothing we can do about it.

As people have been pointing out for the last four years, we did vote for it.

Just as I thought, from the UK's derider in chief, we now have to accept
petulant kickbacks like the shellfish debacle, because we'd better get used
to the EU behaving like a spoilt brat, because, you know, we voted for it.
What you always seem to disregard is that this country does not have to put up with this sort of thing now, the EU has agreed, in a free trade deal, the fishing quotas, they now don't like it, pull these stunts, and these swift changes to the spirit of that must have repercussions. We now do not need to bow supinely to this kind of shit anymore, the waters they fish in are UK waters, if we suddenly, and we could, impose what the fuck we liked on those who fish there, this nonsense would end overnight. Talks are ongoing as we speak.
Then there is the ongoing nonsense about ports, lorry parks, queues and the like, I'm still waiting for pics showing the forthcoming mayhem starkly revealed with lorry queues predicted for sometime in the future. It's now becoming very easy to smile at these, and just wait until they all, inexorably and inevitably, turn to dust.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Your baby pics are tedious. They’re preferable though to your repetitive pointless nonsense posts.

It's not nonsense though is it chum? Your Mystic Meg course mustn't have pointed out that astrology is not a recognised science, and can not be used
to formulate policy.
So what's next, the plague of the alien mussel snatchers or apocalypse at
lorry park 14?

 

[meltonblue]

Your point is redundant, read the reports from Dover port authority.

This place is simply a whinge fest from a few hardcores hoping, nay
praying, for any snippets of incoming disaster, that's absolutely certain
to to fizzle into nothingness as the days go by.
We are now seeing endless fishing stories, which is utterly laughable, as it's now looks like it's the only one left, this, after years of scorn and ridicule being poured on an industry derided for being a tiny fraction of the economy.
Even that is coming down to a small section of this so called insignificant industry that fishes for molluscs.
The reasons why are out there, water grades being a factor, but like
all other doom scenarios, compromises will be made, and the industry adapts. Quotas are up, watch this space in a year or so.
So, the internet will be scoured as everything continues to defy those
determined to hear from folk about how sad they should be, because
they say so. Another forecast will be put up, debated, outrage will pour forth, and a week or two later, it'll prove a disappointment yet again,
to be filed amongst Lorry parks, vaccines, the EMA, houses in Spain,
and Nissan, as mission aborted.

I did read the report from Dover, I saw it before your post - that’s why I knew the statement that Guido put was misleading.

Your point on the Internet being scoured, I know. I said exactly that in my reply to you. People seem to think it’s only the opposite extreme side of the debate that does it when you’re all at it.

 

[west didsblue]

It's not nonsense though is it chum? Your Mystic Meg course mustn't have pointed out that astrology is not a recognised science, and can not be used
to formulate policy.
So what's next, the plague of the alien mussel snatchers or apocalypse at
lorry park 14?

Are you saying lorry parks aren't real or exports of fish aren't affected?

When trying to find out what's happening in the country you really should do more than pluck news from up your own arse. I suspect you don't really want to do that because you might not like what you find.

 

[metalblue]

Just as I thought, from the UK's derider in chief, we now have to accept
petulant kickbacks like the shellfish debacle, because we'd better get used
to the EU behaving like a spoilt brat, because, you know, we voted for it.
What you always seem to disregard is that this country does not have to put up with this sort of thing now, the EU has agreed, in a free trade deal, the fishing quotas, they now don't like it, pull these stunts, and these swift changes to the spirit of that must have repercussions. We now do not need to bow supinely to this kind of shit anymore, the waters they fish in are UK waters, if we suddenly, and we could, impose what the fuck we liked on those who fish there, this nonsense would end overnight. Talks are ongoing as we speak.
Then there is the ongoing nonsense about ports, lorry parks, queues and the like, I'm still waiting for pics showing the forthcoming mayhem starkly revealed with lorry queues predicted for sometime in the future. It's now becoming very easy to smile at these, and just wait until they all, inexorably and inevitably, turn to dust.

Exactly this. Now I’m sure the agreement with EU didn’t state what nets must be used on their fishing boats. Perhaps we should say only nets made in UK are acceptable to be able to fish on non UK registered boats in UK waters from here on in. I’m sure the EU boats won’t have the right paperwork but we need 50 forms filled in to support their claim the nets were made here...it’s all in the name of caring about what type of nets these fish are caught in so really they can’t complain right? It doesn’t matter the EU made nets are identical to the UK ones either we have new legislation we want to enact. See being a **** is easy in this game.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I did read the report from Dover, I saw it before your post - that’s why I knew the statement that Guido put was misleading.

Your point on the Internet being scoured, I know. I said exactly that in my reply to you. People seem to think it’s only the opposite extreme side of the debate that does it when you’re all at it.

Fair enough.
To refer back to Dover, the issues that have been put up over the past months
are now shown to be what they are, scaremongering nonsense. What amazes
me though is intelligent people expecting what never happens, to be just
around the corner if we wait long enough.

 

[west didsblue]

What has Cummings actually done? This bogeyman view of him is weird beyond belief.

He wanted to leave the EU and bent facts to force the vote. Doing so hasn’t cost lives and doing so has at worst made a minor industry at risk, that makes up 0.01% of our GDPR.

Compare it to the Iraq War and it’s not even on the same planet of an issue.

That's a relief. It's only fish affected by Brexit, and they're actually happy now.