Political relations between UK-EU

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Mëtal Bikër said:
5 years on and still lessons have not been learned.

And it's the same ignorant voices, too.
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I presume you want people to be nice to you and to try and understand you rather than highlight your idiotic choice. If people weren't so mean to you in 2016 you might have voted Remain?
That ships sailed. We will all reap what you lot have sowed.
 
west didsblue said:
I presume you want people to be nice to you and to try and understand you rather than highlight your idiotic choice. If people weren't so mean to you in 2016 you might have voted Remain?
That ships sailed. We will all reap what you lot have sowed.
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So has your rationality :)

If that's the case, don't come to us looking for sympathy sweetie. Any ramblings from you in the future will just be perceived as a tantrum.
 
metalblue said:
“no deal is better than a bad deal*

*when the bad deal is worse than no deal”

Talk about stating the obvious. It was a nonsense statement really I can only imagine uttered in public to show how tough each side was being with the other.

Nail on head of the “solutions” it all seemed far enough away to talk fancifully but once you start getting into the detail they see solutions are years away from being realised.

It’s now about prioritising the problems/ barriers. The trouble is while we work through all this real people and livelihoods are suffering. So full government support for these industries is an absolute must during this time.
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Completely agree with the last Para.

It was nonsense to say NDIBTABD and there is no doubt that in part it was used by the government as a negotiation ploy, but there were significant numbers who commented who actually believed it. Like they believed the Art 24 nonsense and the technological solution that depended on non-existent technology.

As to the government, the strategy depended on making the EU think we were actually batshit crazy enough to genuinely believe that. As a negotiation strategy it certainly had the virtue of being novel, but even with this limited hindsight I don’t think you can describe it as an unqualified success.
 
Chris in London said:
Completely agree with the last Para.

It was nonsense to say NDIBTABD and there is no doubt that in part it was used by the government as a negotiation ploy, but there were significant numbers who commented who actually believed it. Like they believed the Art 24 nonsense and the technological solution that depended on non-existent technology.

As to the government, the strategy depended on making the EU think we were actually batshit crazy enough to genuinely believe that. As a negotiation strategy it certainly had the virtue of being novel, but even with this limited hindsight I don’t think you can describe it as an unqualified success.
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No shortage of people on here that think it worked and think we should be using the same negotiation strategy to sort out the NI border issues and import/export problems.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
It certainly demonstrates the hypocrisy of the white,affluent, privileged Remain crowd. No concern whatsoever for the fishing industry during the campaign. Indeed such was the contempt these working class lads and lasses were held in by Captain Geldof and his ilk, Cap’n Bob and his fellow chaps saw fit to hire a motor craft at considerable expense for the purpose of sailing it down the nations busiest river simply to use this as a way to call these hard working, concerned fellow citizens Wankers and tell them to Fuck Off on national television.

That was the priority. That was the best use of his time and his money - much of it earned from the tragedy of black families dying of starvation - He didn’t use that surplus cash to donate to a soup kitchen, he didn’t use it to help out a local charity. No, he used his surplus cash to tell working class people “you’re wankers” and “fuck off” Simply because they disagreed with his view of the world.

That was also the moment when millions of other working class people realised, in full HD, exactly what the suburban set actually thought of them.

That was the moment that hit home.

That was the moment the referendum was won for Leave.

That was the moment our country was saved.

You can take your fake concern for people you wouldn’t ordinarily piss on if they were on fire. They know you don’t mean it. They know you really think they are wankers and are beneath you. They have memories. So do I. And on June 23 2016 I used that memory in the voting booth.

Working class solidarity won. Affluent privileged sneering lost.

Thank you. You and yours made the case for Leave far better than the leave campaign could ever have dreamed of doing themselves.
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more complete tosh and along the same lines as usual. Fucking 'class war'..
 
Chris in London said:
Completely agree with the last Para.

It was nonsense to say NDIBTABD and there is no doubt that in part it was used by the government as a negotiation ploy, but there were significant numbers who commented who actually believed it. Like they believed the Art 24 nonsense and the technological solution that depended on non-existent technology.

As to the government, the strategy depended on making the EU think we were actually batshit crazy enough to genuinely believe that. As a negotiation strategy it certainly had the virtue of being novel, but even with this limited hindsight I don’t think you can describe it as an unqualified success.
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That last part is really important. I was going to respond similarly to @west didsblue

What seems clear to me (hindsight perhaps) is we needed a 6 month or so “grace period” to run the deal “live” and uncover the practical problems that aren’t always apparent in the meeting rooms where the deal is thrashed out. This would allow business on both sides of the channel to run as normal rather than to halt trading. COVID would have provided a great reason for such an idea if it was deemed a politically complex “sell”. Our learned experiences will certainly help any other country looking to exit the EU manage better.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
I wouldn't expect you to understand mate.
You think me and mine are wankers to be insulted on national television.

But thanks for the victory.
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Were you with Farage on the boat?

You're just projecting onto Geldof what you think he thinks of you.

It's the fishermen on that boat I feel sorry for, thinking Farage was on their side. You apparently don't feel sorry for anybody.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
And this post simply confirms that the UK is far better being out of an organisation that creates this kind of conflict. When deals are struck and hands are shaken, and the other side starts to see that the results of their stultifying bureaucracy are massively detrimental to themselves, and shown in stark detail to be, to by the nimble operator over the water, to then react
in the manner they have, that's no basis for harmony.
And yes, we're aware there 'Will be more to come,' and that means consequences.
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“Yeah, guv, like I used to just have to send an invoice, now it’s twenty-five fuck’in forms, and I have to pay a customs agent and freight costs have doubled because if a lorry ain’t moving, the driver ain’t earning”

Come on mate, no one is buying that. Brexit is stultifying bureaucracy on steroids. The Chemical Sector is having to stump up a cool £1 billion to re-register chemicals for no apparent reason.

And you even prove my point. Eliminate trade barriers, harmonise rules, no conflict, no consequences. We decided to reintroduce trade barriers, conflict is created.

What conflict we have now and in the future is down to our decision to create areas of conflict where none existed previously.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
So has your rationality :)

If that's the case, don't come to us looking for sympathy sweetie. Any ramblings from you in the future will just be perceived as a tantrum.
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perhaps you would like to tell these Brexit voters to just stop having a tantrum....

www.bbc.co.uk

Brexit trade deal leaves Welsh fishermen 'devastated'

New rules could create a "perfect storm" for the £39m sector, says Welsh Fishermen's Association.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Talking of tantrums...Ms Foster is having one.

‘Northern Ireland needs freed from the Protocol.
We must have unfettered trade between GB & NI.
It’s time for the Government to step up & protect this part of the United Kingdom with permanent solutions, not sticking plasters.
EU must recognise the absence of unionist support.’ @DUP

Not happening, you wanted Brexit, you got it. Enjoy.
 
BobKowalski said:
Talking of tantrums...Ms Foster is having one.

‘Northern Ireland needs freed from the Protocol.
We must have unfettered trade between GB & NI.
It’s time for the Government to step up & protect this part of the United Kingdom with permanent solutions, not sticking plasters.
EU must recognise the absence of unionist support.’ @DUP

Not happening, you wanted Brexit, you got it. Enjoy.
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metalblue said:
That last part is really important. I was going to respond similarly to @west didsblue

What seems clear to me (hindsight perhaps) is we needed a 6 month or so “grace period” to run the deal “live” and uncover the practical problems that aren’t always apparent in the meeting rooms where the deal is thrashed out. This would allow business on both sides of the channel to run as normal rather than to halt trading. COVID would have provided a great reason for such an idea if it was deemed a politically complex “sell”. Our learned experiences will certainly help any other country looking to exit the EU manage better.
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Did irritate me that the pandemic gave them a perfect get out of jail to extend the timeframe for implementation and not lose face and they didn’t take it. Could have had the deal provisionally agreed then tested over a period of time and also allowed them not to add change on top of already an unprecedented period of change so that they can’t properly assess the impacts.

The question there is it was so clearly the rational thing to do, why didn’t they do it....

Sometimes, I do think it’s a shame that it’s a topic that has so much emotional investment and real life impacts attached to it. It would be a fascinating case study if it could all be properly objectively assessed without all the baggage.
 
bluethrunthru said:
it seems destroying your own country is now being framed as class war and a test of patriotism. Who knew? Most just fancied retiring to a small apartment they have on the Algarve....
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Try as i might i really can't get the 'class' angle that @Kazzydeyna brings up every month or so.
Starting with the notion that Bob Geldof is 'posh' and part of an elite. Maybe it's because he was on a boat or had a stripey blazer on? Also worht noting that Geldofs 'flotilla' was there to give 'man of the peoples that drinks pints' Farages 'flotilla' some shit.
I also wonder where KD's fight for social justice fits in with our new immigration bill? You know the one that says wealthy, educated immigrants are welcome but the poor, homeless, un-educated ones can fuck right off.
Voting for a brexit run by Johnson and championed by reese fucking mogg is hardly standing shoulder to shoulder with the working classes is it?
 
stonerblue said:
Try as i might i really can't get the 'class' angle that @Kazzydeyna brings up every month or so.
Starting with the notion that Bob Geldof is 'posh' and part of an elite. Maybe it's because he was on a boat or had a stripey blazer on? Also worht noting that Geldofs 'flotilla' was there to give 'man of the peoples that drinks pints' Farages 'flotilla' some shit.
I also wonder where KD's fight for social justice fits in with our new immigration bill? You know the one that says wealthy, educated immigrants are welcome but the poor, homeless, un-educated ones can fuck right off.
Voting for a brexit run by Johnson and championed by reese fucking mogg is hardly standing shoulder to shoulder with the working classes is it?
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Maybe he's a big fan of Nanny's homemade marmalade.
 
stonerblue said:
Try as i might i really can't get the 'class' angle that @Kazzydeyna brings up every month or so.
Starting with the notion that Bob Geldof is 'posh' and part of an elite. Maybe it's because he was on a boat or had a stripey blazer on? Also worht noting that Geldofs 'flotilla' was there to give 'man of the peoples that drinks pints' Farages 'flotilla' some shit.
I also wonder where KD's fight for social justice fits in with our new immigration bill? You know the one that says wealthy, educated immigrants are welcome but the poor, homeless, un-educated ones can fuck right off.
Voting for a brexit run by Johnson and championed by reese fucking mogg is hardly standing shoulder to shoulder with the working classes is it?
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It is considering more of the working class voted Tory than Labour in 2019.
 
Back to NI and a point I was making a while back, about NI being in a unique position to capitalise on being between two distinct markets, the EU and GB market.

 
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