Political relations between UK-EU

[Ban-jani]

I have no idea, she just blamed Brexit. Every time someone hits a hiccup, a price rise, a shortage in seasonal fruit or veg they are going to blame Brexit, whether they are right or not is irrelevant, that will be the narrative.

The economy is on its knees from Covid so if you think things ‘aren’t that bad’ then I have no idea what you expected, nor am I surprised you like to shutter yourself away from ‘foreigners and their influences’ but there are millions who are not quite so ‘blinkered’ shall we say. For a libertarian you sure do like Govt restricting where people go, and who they mix with. I imagine you popped open the champagne when they scrapped Erasmus. Can’t have our British kids mixing with European ones. They might catch ‘Europeanisem’.

I genuinely don’t think the majority are talking about Brexit.

Nobody at work, my family or friends has discussed it for the last year, other than December to get the deal. It’s gone from the front of the majority of people’s minds.

The economy is bad but my point is about Brexit’s impact. It’s barely affected things to make them even worse than what Covid has already done, it’s that significant change that I expected that hasn’t arrived, no matter how desperate some are for it to happen.

The last part of your post is just laughable really. Number one I am not libertarian, I have some libertarian views to specific policies but I also have a lot of social democratic views, that could even be described as socialist and overall I am more socially conservative than anything. My view is we should have liberty under law and that law should include a robust immigration policy.

I am not anti immigration at all, I am actually pro immigration. I want the numbers to be somewhere in the region of 5,000-20,000 net per year, based on what jobs we need to fill, rather than 400,000 net and that number including many with experience that we aren’t short in.

A steady, small but refined number in terms of skill set, is a very sensible policy.

And opening it up so that anyone in the world with these skills, irrelevant of which nationality, race or cultural background, is the fairest and less discriminatory way of doing it.

So no, it’s certainly not about keeping Johnny Foreigner out, it’s about ensuring it’s specific skill sets for jobs we need filling and about a sustainable number of people.

The government isn’t stopping people mix with anyone (well outside of lockdown). You’re welcome to migrate anywhere you want, if you meet the criteria, we just won’t be part of an internal European market anymore and you’ll have to do the thing that works all around the world... apply for a visa. If you want your fix of European culture, you can travel free for 90 days anyway, if you want to live there, apply and I am sure you will fit the criteria somewhere.

 

[Vic]

My entire point is there is practically zero impact on the daily lives of most people.

Like murder. Like any crime.

But you are wrong. Everyone will be a Brexit victim.

 

[west didsblue]

There’s stories posted on here that I don’t see reading the Independent, Telegraph etc. that are posted off Twitter.

It may not just be searches but they follow #FBPE accounts and then that’s all their Twitter feed is.

Even the Express are moaning about the effects of Brexit, although they do their best to twist it to blame the EU and “Remainers”.

 

[hampshireblue]

I’ve given you the good news but you don’t recognise it as you disagree on immigration.

I must have missed it. Also upthread I think you said you voted to remain?

 

[BobKowalski]

I genuinely don’t think the majority are talking about Brexit.

Nobody at work, my family or friends has discussed it for the last year, other than December to get the deal. It’s gone from the front of the majority of people’s minds.

The economy is bad but my point is about Brexit’s impact. It’s barely affected things to make them even worse than what Covid has already done, it’s that significant change that I expected that hasn’t arrived, no matter how desperate some are for it to happen.

The last part of your post is just laughable really. Number one I am not libertarian, I have some libertarian views to specific policies but I also have a lot of social democratic views, that could even be described as sicalistand overall I am more socially conservative than anything. My view is we should have liberty under law and that law should include a robust immigration policy.

I am not anti immigration at all, I am actually pro immigration. I want the numbers to be somewhere in the region of 5,000-20,000 net per year, based on what jobs we need to fill, rather than 400,000 net and that number including many with experience that we aren’t short in.

A steady, small but refined number in terms of skill set, is a very sensible policy.

And opening it up so that anyone in the world with these skills, irrelevant of which nationality, race or cultural background, is the fairest and less discriminatory way of doing it.

So no, it’s certainly not about keeping Johnny Foreigner out, it’s about ensuring it’s specific skill sets for jobs we need filling and about a sustainable number of people.

The government isn’t stopping people mix with anyone (well outside of lockdown). You’re welcome to migrate anywhere you want, if you meet the criteria, we just won’t be part of an internal European market anymore and you’ll have to do the thing that works all around the world... apply for a visa. If you want your fix of European culture, you can travel free for 90 days anyway, if you want to live there, apply and I am sure you will fit the criteria somewhere.

I didn’t have to meet any Govt mandated criteria. Now I do. That is a reduction in personal liberty. I am unable to comprehend people who willing surrender their personal liberties outside of an emergency situation. I think it’s strange.

Equally I don’t get people who made a political fetish out of ‘control’ and then are happy we have surrendered ‘control’, given our trade exports to our largest market are now subject to the political whims of an outside agency and French customs officials in a grumpy mood. I don’t get people who pleaded for freedom from ‘red tape’ and are delighted when red tape is increased tenfold.

Honestly, it’s certifiable behaviour, total loony tunes, batshit weird.

 

[west didsblue]

The go to line now is that Brexit hasn’t had the catastrophic outcome supposedly predicted by Remainers. They ignore the fact that it was No Deal that everyone was predicting dire outcomes. I personally thought that once a deal was announced the effects wouldn’t become clear for months or even years. Seems I was wrong and the consequences are there for all to see just 3 weeks in, and whilst it may not have impacted the majority to any significant extent yet, it’s only a matter of time - and it won’t be that long. I just hope that it’s clear enough in the short term to force the government to go back and try and renegotiate before it does too much damage.

 

[Ban-jani]

Like murder. Like any crime.

But you are wrong. Everyone will be a Brexit victim.

If you don’t mind, I’m not just going to take your opinion.

 

[Ban-jani]

Even the Express are moaning about the effects of Brexit, although they do their best to twist it to blame the EU and “Remainers”.

Why are you taking any notice of the Express?

 

[Ban-jani]

I must have missed it. Also upthread I think you said you voted to remain?

I did.

The good news is the new immigration policy.

 

[Ban-jani]

I didn’t have to meet any Govt mandated criteria. Now I do. That is a reduction in personal liberty. I am unable to comprehend people who willing surrender their personal liberties outside of an emergency situation. I think it’s strange.

Equally I don’t get people who made a political fetish out of ‘control’ and then are happy we have surrendered ‘control’, given our trade exports to our largest market are now subject to the political whims of an outside agency and French customs officials in a grumpy mood. I don’t get people who pleaded for freedom from ‘red tape’ and are delighted when red tape is increased tenfold.

Honestly, it’s certifiable behaviour, total loony tunes, batshit weird.

I never made a point about control but control isn’t all about exports, that’s not the only aspect of the whole discussion.

Regarding your personal liberties, they still very much exist but open borders aren’t a personal liberty that I think is a) acceptable b) to be sought after and c) that it will be a positive for the UK, as we’ve seen with the affects of mass immigration.

There are many ways the government restricts personal liberty and a lot of it is for a good reason, as I believe is the case now with free movement.