Social conservatism

Ban-jani said:
Of course you should speak to a woman differently at a bar.

Might just be me but I’ve been brought up not to swear in front of women, not to swear at them, not to threaten them if they’re being out of line.

All these things I would do to a man that had crossed the line or I was joking with.

Again, might just be me but I wouldn’t say the f or c word with a lady present.
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it's not necessarily just you, my wife hankers after a gentlemanly world and hates my sudden eruptions of foul mouthed invective (refs, var, bojo)

I was, however, privileged to have grown up with a progressive father, successful mother and 3 wonderful sisters who would, quite rightly, rip the arse out of me if I attempted to tell them how they should live their life or what to do with their bodies,
 
lloydie said:
it's not necessarily just you, my wife hankers after a gentlemanly world and hates my sudden eruptions of foul mouthed invective (refs, var, bojo)

I was, however, privileged to have grown up with a progressive father, successful mother and 3 wonderful sisters who would, quite rightly, rip the arse out of me if I attempted to tell them how they should live their life or what to do with their bodies,
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What, let them think for themselves ? who knows where that could lead, they’ll be the bread winner next and I might have to do the dishes, some might even go to football and call the ref a ****, that’s my job.
 
andyhinch said:
What, let them think for themselves ? who knows where that could lead, they’ll be the bread winner next and I might have to do the dishes, some might even go to football and call the ref a ****, that’s my job.
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What about the BJ’s ?
 
andyhinch said:
Have you ever thought they might not like it ? About 30% of my friends are women, must admit I can be overly protective at times tbh.
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I'd add to that by saying that patronising bullshit is offensive, no matter what gender you are, showing care for another isn't. No dig at you btw.
 
lloydie said:
I'd add to that by saying that patronising bullshit is offensive, no matter what gender you are, showing care for another isn't. No dig at you btw.
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Hope it didn’t come across that way, know a lot of strong women, they wouldn’t thank me for treating them like the little lady, I’d probably get kicked in the balls.
 
andyhinch said:
What, let them think for themselves ? who knows where that could lead, they’ll be the bread winner next and I might have to do the dishes, some might even go to football and call the ref a ****, that’s my job.
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Its our duty to protect these fragile flowers from ideas, concepts and, heaven forfend, bad words.

My big Sis (gone now) once told me I was a **** for trying to walk her home when she was pissed...

As I'm on my last Penderyn of the evening, a valentines gift from my silly little vixen (she'd piss herself at that) I'll bow out for now from this with the first sentence I came in with:

"Don't get the desire to impose on others values derived from received wisdoms."

and to clarify I meant all religions.
 
It's all about their dads. Authoritarian rather than authoritative. Frequently not doing that good a job in real terms, and using their fake masculinity or the threat of force. Poor kids. I feel bad for 'em.

I mean, everyone's dad was flawed. They could always be wrong, on almost anything. There were more succesful, fairer people. And undoubtedly, stronger, although the notion of amazing strength in your father is something that's probably supposed to not be taken literally beyond your fifth year. The problem arises, and is passed on, when he not only can't deal with it, he has to hide what is a fundamental fact about human life and parenting. We're all flawed, can all be beaten. And for each of us, there are many perfectly reasonable and fair perspectives from which we look like utter moral and ethical failures, especially in our relationships, and never more so than when raising children. You offer your child a perspective, and you hope that's good enough. Allowing them to believe it is the only one they could have recieved, is somewhere between inevitable, desirably natural, and utterly, utterly disastrous.

Women are weak. Dear god. 45, have had my arse handed to me repeatedly. Utterly outplayed, out thought, out lived. Out ethic'd, out read, out learned, shown I have lies coming out of my arse, especially where I thought I had wisdom. I've been out acted, out communinated. Outsuffered. Tried to manage them and realise I'd been managed all the way through. Out philosophised. Shown how to respond to threats and problems, like I'm a child. Everything but out boasted. And yet, they really aren't that scary. They are just coming up with a life that works for them. Damn... they really were given some big, scary skills by that biological neurology. You just underestimate them to your and their loss. It's an obvious lie, a big fat whopper. I'll make it easy - we're all scared. And we all find ways to ameliorate that. Joining in with the crowd, collectively making believe you have a special strength that 50% of the rest of the world doesn't - that's how it went for you.

You really have to laugh that this stuff has come back into fashion, but I think there are reasons, the dialogues that pervade our recent history - last twenty years in the west - have been extremely harmful to everyone, and perhaps most of all to young men. I wouldn't guess I would find it easy to accept their natural strength and intelligence, if I'd grown up a decade or two later.

The worst thing for me at 45, is knowing it went wrong. Knowing more lies are believed now than when I was younger. And seeing for myself, that what they said was true - it never stops at one lie. The first will require another to prevent the natural process of the truth naturally being revealed. Another lie, another denial, another obstruction, another collective sulk, another target, and the brief respite of a good chest beating, is all you will ever know. You poor bastards! Never knowing the security the others tasted, that means that - most of the time - admitting the truth can't possibly hurt you as much as another lie.
 
Summerbuzz said:
It's all about their dads. Authoritarian rather than authoritative. Frequently not doing that good a job in real terms, and using their fake masculinity or the threat of force. Poor kids. I feel bad for 'em.

I mean, everyone's dad was flawed. They could always be wrong, on almost anything. There were more succesful, fairer people. And undoubtedly, stronger, although the notion of amazing strength in your father is something that's probably supposed to not be taken literally beyond your fifth year. The problem arises, and is passed on, when he not only can't deal with it, he has to hide what is a fundamental fact about human life and parenting. We're all flawed, can all be beaten. And for each of us, there are many perfectly reasonable and fair perspectives from which we look like utter moral and ethical failures, especially in our relationships, and never more so than when raising children. You offer your child a perspective, and you hope that's good enough. Allowing them to believe it is the only one they could have recieved, is somewhere between inevitable, desirably natural, and utterly, utterly disastrous.

Women are weak. Dear god. 45, have had my arse handed to me repeatedly. Utterly outplayed, out thought, out lived. Out ethic'd, out read, out learned, shown I have lies coming out of my arse, especially where I thought I had wisdom. I've been out acted, out communinated. Outsuffered. Tried to manage them and realise I'd been managed all the way through. Out philosophised. Shown how to respond to threats and problems, like I'm a child. Everything but out boasted. And yet, they really aren't that scary. They are just coming up with a life that works for them. Damn... they really were given some big, scary skills by that biological neurology. You just underestimate them to your and their loss. It's an obvious lie, a big fat whopper. I'll make it easy - we're all scared. And we all find ways to ameliorate that. Joining in with the crowd, collectively making believe you have a special strength that 50% of the rest of the world doesn't - that's how it went for you.

You really have to laugh that this stuff has come back into fashion, but I think there are reasons, the dialogues that pervade our recent history - last twenty years in the west - have been extremely harmful to everyone, and perhaps most of all to young men. I wouldn't guess I would find it easy to accept their natural strength and intelligence, if I'd grown up a decade or two later.

The worst thing for me at 45, is knowing it went wrong. Knowing more lies are believed now than when I was younger. And seeing for myself, that what they said was true - it never stops at one lie. The first will require another to prevent the natural process of the truth naturally being revealed. Another lie, another denial, another obstruction, another collective sulk, another target, and the brief respite of a good chest beating, is all you will ever know. You poor bastards! Never knowing the security the others tasted, that means that - most of the time - admitting the truth can't possibly hurt you as much as another lie.
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This is a brilliant post, really, thank you.
 
Summerbuzz said:
It's all about their dads. Authoritarian rather than authoritative. Frequently not doing that good a job in real terms, and using their fake masculinity or the threat of force. Poor kids. I feel bad for 'em.

I mean, everyone's dad was flawed. They could always be wrong, on almost anything. There were more succesful, fairer people. And undoubtedly, stronger, although the notion of amazing strength in your father is something that's probably supposed to not be taken literally beyond your fifth year. The problem arises, and is passed on, when he not only can't deal with it, he has to hide what is a fundamental fact about human life and parenting. We're all flawed, can all be beaten. And for each of us, there are many perfectly reasonable and fair perspectives from which we look like utter moral and ethical failures, especially in our relationships, and never more so than when raising children. You offer your child a perspective, and you hope that's good enough. Allowing them to believe it is the only one they could have recieved, is somewhere between inevitable, desirably natural, and utterly, utterly disastrous.

Women are weak. Dear god. 45, have had my arse handed to me repeatedly. Utterly outplayed, out thought, out lived. Out ethic'd, out read, out learned, shown I have lies coming out of my arse, especially where I thought I had wisdom. I've been out acted, out communinated. Outsuffered. Tried to manage them and realise I'd been managed all the way through. Out philosophised. Shown how to respond to threats and problems, like I'm a child. Everything but out boasted. And yet, they really aren't that scary. They are just coming up with a life that works for them. Damn... they really were given some big, scary skills by that biological neurology. You just underestimate them to your and their loss. It's an obvious lie, a big fat whopper. I'll make it easy - we're all scared. And we all find ways to ameliorate that. Joining in with the crowd, collectively making believe you have a special strength that 50% of the rest of the world doesn't - that's how it went for you.

You really have to laugh that this stuff has come back into fashion, but I think there are reasons, the dialogues that pervade our recent history - last twenty years in the west - have been extremely harmful to everyone, and perhaps most of all to young men. I wouldn't guess I would find it easy to accept their natural strength and intelligence, if I'd grown up a decade or two later.

The worst thing for me at 45, is knowing it went wrong. Knowing more lies are believed now than when I was younger. And seeing for myself, that what they said was true - it never stops at one lie. The first will require another to prevent the natural process of the truth naturally being revealed. Another lie, another denial, another obstruction, another collective sulk, another target, and the brief respite of a good chest beating, is all you will ever know. You poor bastards! Never knowing the security the others tasted, that means that - most of the time - admitting the truth can't possibly hurt you as much as another lie.
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Great post.

I'm 63 and have spent many years on the road of self enlightenment. Both my parents have passed but long before their passing I came to understand that they were deeply flawed and had in turn passed on a set of flaws to me. Multi generational sickness.

Am I cured of the negative behaviours that I aquired ? No, I am simply aware and guarded against them. My guard is regularly defeated but each time I hope to grow a little more.

We are all one legged skaters. The trick is to recognise that and be the best one legged skater you can be.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
What does it mean to you?

Do you identify as this yourself?

What policies would you like to see introduced?

Who are your political heroes (contemporary or recent past) in public life/philosophy/commentary etc?

Just a starting block for debate, please add your own questions and answers as you wish.
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Firstly, forget what you read about what this means in the USA, it’s not a far right ideology like is attributed to their form of it. British SC has nothing to do with “Trump”, it’s centrist. We do not live in the USA, our political spectrum is completely different to the USA (they think Liberalism is left wing over there). Just get the USA out of your mind immediately when talking about anything in the British political spectrum.

Social Conservatism is simply the non-economic, social polices of conservatism. It’s nothing more and nothing less. How welfare is spent and what services are nationalised under a Conservative Govt are social conservatism. But also about family units, patriotism and traditions of the working class.

It’s where working class people who aren’t socialists find themselves on the spectrum. It’s what the centre-right of the Liberal Democrats are, it’s what the One Nation Tories are where they feel the middle and upper classes have an obligation to the working class.

That’s it. That’s all it is.
 
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I'm With Stupid said:


But of course Banjani gets his morality from the bible these days, so compared to that, Victorian is practically space age.
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Corinthians 14:34 states: “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.”

In case you’re wondering if the Bible was written by men. The misogyny and sexism is astounding, especially by today’s standards.

Leviticus 18:22 reads: “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

Don't dare fall in love with a person of the same sex , it is abominable.

Corinthians 6:18 reads: “Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.”

Best not have a wank, you are a sinner and will go to hell.

Social Conservatives actually believe this sort of fucking nonsense. They believe in a book wrote to control the masses for the enrichment and entrenchment of power for the few.

Obviously the following doesn't apply to Johnson, he must be above their God. The hypocritical fuckers.

Hebrews 13:4 reads: “Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.
 
andyhinch said:
It’s Friday night I’d expect nothing less, but workers get shat on while a few at the top laugh there cocks off, I’d just like a bit more equality.
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That’s down to the liberalisation of banking and business laws though. Social conservatism would/should temper that under a conservative govt. Whether that happens or not is a different matter.
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s not Victorian to realise men and women should be treated differently.
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I treat women differently to men. I’m more polite to them, I swear less in conversation with them and in front of them, I hold doors open for them even if I got there first, I’m more protective of my female friends (and they like that about me), I’d never let one of my female mates walk home alone at night.. whereas my male mates, they can fuck off if they think I’m walking home with them out of my way, waiting with them for their taxi or getting in a taxi with them out of my way.

My Mother, from Moss Side, doesn’t like me or my Dad swearing, she thinks it’s beneath us and still to this day in my thirties I don’t swear more than the words bloody/bugger/shit in front of her. And she still tutts when I say shit.
 
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