Shamima Begum

how much they want to punish this vulnerable young rape victim.
Fucking stroll on.

She wasn’t in the U.K., there’s no age of consent issue where she married given it was a Islamic marriage and she was considered “of age” or do you just believe that British laws are the only laws (when it suits your argument). Or are you unaware that different countries have different laws, including age of consent? Or are you just taking the piss as you apparently hate the U.K. and think we should pay for and house and militant Islamist **** that decides a losing war zone isn’t that fun after all?

I genuinely hope your posts are because you crave attention because I genuinely think I’d rather have Begum as the PM than you.

(But I’ll still give you free pension advice when you need it, because I’m nice like that)
 
Fucking stroll on.

She wasn’t in the U.K., there’s no age of consent issue where she married given it was a Islamic marriage and she was considered “of age” or do you just believe that British laws are the only laws (when it suits your argument). Or are you unaware that different countries have different laws, including age of consent? Or are you just taking the piss as you apparently hate the U.K. and think we should pay for and house and militant Islamist **** that decides a losing war zone isn’t that fun after all?

I genuinely hope your posts are because you crave attention because I genuinely think I’d rather have Begum as the PM than you.

(But I’ll still give you free pension advice when you need it, because I’m nice like that)
To be fair mate I absolutely do not want to fall out with anyone so I shall probably be best leaving this thread alone from now on.

I especially don’t want to fall out with someone who gave me some brilliant advice and did so willingly and happily the other day - Thanks again for that. Out of respect to you as a poster I shall leave well alone in this thread from now on.


EDIT: You weren’t one of the posters I was referring to earlier by the way.
 
To be fair mate I absolutely do not want to fall out with anyone so I shall probably be best leaving this thread alone from now on.

I especially don’t want to fall out with someone who gave me some brilliant advice and did so willingly and happily the other day - Thanks again for that. Out of respect to you as a poster I shall leave well alone in this thread from now on.


EDIT: You weren’t one of the posters I was referring to earlier by the way.
No worries and not falling out. @Rascal will attest that I leave politics at the door when it comes to every other dealings I have with people. I’d more than happily share a beer or two with you, I’d just rather not have you in a position of power (as I’m sure you’d rather I wasn’t Home Secretary also)
 
I'm struggling to see your position on this issue.

If she is guilty of being complicit in the suffering of others, then that suffering occured in Syria, which is where she should face trial and be incarcerated for life. If you don't agree with that then shouldn't Sacoolas face trial in the US instead of the UK then?

If she HASN'T committed any crime, then why does she need to be extradited back to the UK to face trial here? So much concern and consideration over a woman whose actions would make Hindley seem like a saint in comparison. She's not vulnerable, recent footage showed her walking around with a spring in her step and appeared in fine health. She wants to escape justice by coming to the UK, nothing more.

I don't think you debate in good faith, so I think any further discussion is pointless, the same applies to AC. The fact that you have compared her unfavorably to Myra Hindley is evidence of that. Torture tapes and a substantial body of evidence versus newspaper clippings and hearsay. You are on a black and white, fire and brimstone circle jerk with your chums.

Is it possible that she could be vulnerable and dangerous? Did that thought ever cross your mind? That things aren't as binary as you make out.

There are practical considerations and financial costs issues, why the Syrian Kurds may not be able to hold a trial and house foreign criminals for long sentences. The UK could facilitate trials, and as there are already laws that allow war crime trials for overseas offences. This isn't particularly an alien idea, when it was passed these considerations must have been in the mind of the legislators.

The same doesn't apply to Anne Saccolas in the United Kingdom, but in any case the USA would be entitled to request that she serve a sentence in USA (even if only partially) and the victim's family made unprompted remarks of having no objection to that.

I told you that the number of children in those camps exceeds the number of adults. I have made it clear several times that I am concerned about those children and believe we should do all we can to help them. As some of them have citizenship of western countries, ordinary immigration and refugee resettlement rules can be sidestepped.

I also linked an article about beheadings taking place and ISIS loyalists are the suspected culprits. Obviously the camps are not as secure as they need to be as otherwise this wouldn't happen. There needs to be a plan to tackle this. Allowing an environment where beheadings can take place could be allowing loyalist fighters to destroy potentially incriminating testimony from potential witnesses.

If she is as dangerous and complicit in crimes as you and your buddies are making out, and receives a sentence in Syrian Kurdish territory of something like 20 years, and the Syrians are able to meet the financial and practical demands of imprisoning her for that long. I wouldn't be that fussed, although I do believe that the UK, Syrian Kurds and herself should all have the right to request that she serve part of her sentence in the UK (as unlikely as the UK are to request it).

I also believe that she should have her citizenship returned regardless , as she is effectively stateless because there is no mechanism to force Bangladesh to accept her and issue travel documents, and they have already said that she would receive the death penalty.

Why should Bangladesh have the right to hand out a sentence for an offence equivalent to membership of a proscribed group when the Syrian Kurds have already said they will not be handing this out for the worst offenders?
The UK courts would never allow her to be deported to Bangladesh from the UK if the prospect of the death penalty was likely.

If she returns to the UK and there is evidence of outstanding offences , I would not be against her receiving a trial and appropriate punishment if convicted. This point applies generally, and I would feel the same about any other UK citizen, or for example Dutch and Australians and the responsibility of their governments.
 
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Claptrap as usual. The appeal court is not there to override decisions made by parliament, because it doesn’t like them.
We elect people to enact laws, when they do, court’s don’t get to ignore them, that’s why they were rapped by the S C,
Who’s verdict on this case was unanimous.
There you go again.

MB said the "counter" was know-nowts rather than the second highest court in the land.

That the highest court unanimously overruled the second highest is not in dispute.
 
They aren't BS reasons though. MI5, The Home Office are in agreement she poses a security risk and the Supreme Court believes she would pose a security risk, which is why they blocked her ability to come to the UK and 'fight' for citizenship.

But no, Bluemoon nobodies know better. You don't get to decide if she poses a risk or not. You don't get to decide whether she retains or loses her UK citizenship. The Supreme Court was unanimous; she poses a security risk and cannot return to the UK to fight for it. You are placing one person's situation above the safety of everyone else in the UK, despite having the Home Office and MI5 provide their analysis that she does pose a risk.

I also seek justice, and Begum needs to answer to the Kurds and the Yazidi women who suffered at the hands of a regime she supported. That before anything else.
Happy to be shown to be wrong, but the SC did not say she posed a security risk. They said the court should not substitute its own assessment of the risk for the Home Secretary's assessment.

The wider problem (detached from this case) is the danger of living in a state where the state can say you're a security risk but you can't present the evidence in court because we'd have to reveal what we know (or don't know) and how we know it. (Possibly why Blunt wasn't charged with anything.)

Anyway, the users of intemperate language seem to have won this thread, rather than the finer points of law. The outcome is that she can't have the fair and effective appeal to which she is legally entitled, and not that many people are bothered.

But most people aren't bothered about human rights until they're taken from them.
 
Yes, you did. You said she wasn't raped because she "willingly" had children with a 25 year old man when she was 15.

You said it explicitly. "Wasn't raped. Had children willingly".

If you think that being willing means a child under the age of consent can't be raped then you shouldn't be giving out lectures on the morality of Shamima Begum.
The age of consent is 15 in Syria.
 
That's a different topic. As the matter stands, the girl was not raped as she admitted that she gave consent. The law of the land she was in stipulated that she was allowed to do this as the age of consent is 15.


She claims that she was raped according to this article, there is a difference between factual and legal consent.

Do you read arabic and have access to the Syrian criminal code or have translations available? What about the issue of marital rape, I'm sure the rule in Islamic state was that wives were not able to withdraw consent to sex when in marriage.

Do you think it is ironic we are now showing defference to the laws of Syria and it's justice system when I don't think there is anyone on this forum who would argue it wasn't a corrupt and brutal regime?
 
I class myself as a annoying leftie on most political subjects, but I wouldn’t have the energy to defend her - whatever the courts decide and whatever the justice/punishment she gets, I won’t lose any sleep over it.

Kind of agree. Don’t wish her anything but misery, but making someone stateless rather than bringing her back to face trial for what she has done seems a poor decision based on Facebook likes.

I don’t think anyone doesn’t want her tried for her actions.
 
Irrespective of right or left, who is right or wrong, I have found this whole thread wonderful.

I may not agree with some of what has been posted from those wanting to "hang her high" or those seeing her as a victim in need of our compassion, but it shows what a complex issue it is.

Zens input I found interesting and opened up new areas i may well read about...who would have thought you would get such insight on a football forum? )of course I am sure you would get the same on RAWK!!!!!)

When does someone have nationality? When are they stateless? Why do we value those little booklets (whether they be burgundy or blue) so highly?

Do we castigate our own government for revoking a citizenship acquired by residence, whilst being happy, or ignoring the BGD gov't denying a citizenship through bloodline? I do find their statement that she would face the death penalty should she return there appalling.

Why are there so many scum bags in the world that corrupt religions for their own ends that cause so much pain and suffering?

Yes there is the moral outrage at what ISIS did/are doing, but what did Shamima actually do?....that can be proved...

I do think there is a huge element of grandstanding by the gov't wanting to make an example out of her. They also know that if allowed to return, no matter the outcome of any hearing, she would never leave.
 

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