The Scottish Politics thread

[Saddleworth2]

Colour: Nicola Sturgeon wears heart on sleeve before Alex Salmond inquiry

For an inquiry that has all too often found its important work consumed by hand-wringing over its own processes and constraints, the testimony of First Minister Nicola Sturgeon provided a raw, emotional edge.

www.scotsman.com

Decent assessment of today imho.

did you listen to it?

I thought she did ok so far.
Can you imagine that level of scrutiny at Westminster?

 

[Coatigan]

did you listen to it?

I thought she did ok so far.
Can you imagine that level of scrutiny at Westminster?

Much of it. I thought she did really well.

I was on the fence about the whole thing, or apathetic to it. I accepted it as a given that Salmond was probably right, the thing was 'botched' and the government and as such she did a fair bit wrong.

But now i feel more that the whole thing is OTT, and not that necessary, and a bit vindictive (Salmond himself, i guess understandably, but also political and media driven).

edit, love or hate them, or anything inbetween, hard to deny they are both damn good politicians, speakers, and strong personalities.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Much of it. I thought she did really well.

I was on the fence about the whole thing, or apathetic to it. I accepted it as a given that Salmond was probably right, the thing was 'botched' and the government and as such she did a fair bit wrong.

But now i feel more that the whole thing is OTT, and not that necessary, and a bit vindictive (Salmond himself, i guess understandably, but also political and media driven).

edit, love or hate them, or anything inbetween, hard to deny they are both damn good politicians, speakers, and strong personalities.

I think the initial investigation by the civil service was botched and the governments subsequent handling of it poor. Given from the start she distanced herself from the whole thing because of her relationship with Salmond its bloody ironic she is now seemingly carrying the can for the whole thing (as some of the line of questioning indicated this morning). She will survive it but no one comes out of these things untarnished. There doesn't seem to be a shred of evidence that validates Salmonds claim that the government 'were out to get him'. His ego really does translate into 'its all about me'.

I will be interested to see the fallout in the SNP party itself which still harbours a great deal of support for Salmond.

Yes, you are right though and both of them 'can handle themselves' and frankly dwarf almost everyone else in Scottish politics at the moment.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Sturgeon has infered Salmond is guilty now on 3 occasions even though he was found not guilty and Government lawyers said there was little chance if a successful prosecution.
At the very least, the Lord Advocate should resign - he clearly was up for a witch hunt. I'm not sure Sturgeon can continue either. Saying Salond is continually guilty when he wasn't is simply not tenable.

 

[Coatigan]

Sturgeon has infered Salmond is guilty now on 3 occasions even though he was found not guilty ... Saying Salmond is continually guilty when he wasn't is simply not tenable.

Senor Tebas says hi.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

To be falsely accused of sex crimes is horrendous for Mr Sammond but Nicola seems to be concerned about her own skin she seems so nervous and waffle is all I can here during today’s enquiry The Scottish people deserve better than that.

 

[mat]

To be falsely accused of sex crimes is horrendous for Mr Sammond but Nicola seems to be concerned about her own skin she seems so nervous and waffle is all I can here during today’s enquiry The Scottish people deserve better than that.

She's got skeletons herself. It all depends on who finds them and the politics made of it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

So Sturgeon cant recall a meeting about alegations about her former closest political ally and close friend. That just isnt believeable is it. She is now lying to save her backside just like every other politician. No surprise

 

[shootmeifipost10k]

So Sturgeon cant recall a meeting about alegations about her former closest political ally and close friend. That just isnt believeable is it. She is now lying to save her backside just like every other politician. No surprise

Well apparently she can't recall if she mentioned the meeting to her husband either, so her memory around the time was a bit hazy.

I imagine those involved sat around a table wondering what to say and couldn't come up with anything credible.
Then after a break for tea and biscuits someone came up with " you forgot about it ".

It is actually a brilliant defense.

The hard part is getting people to believe it.

 

[Vic]

Sturgeon has infered Salmond is guilty now on 3 occasions even though he was found not guilty and Government lawyers said there was little chance if a successful prosecution.
At the very least, the Lord Advocate should resign - he clearly was up for a witch hunt. I'm not sure Sturgeon can continue either. Saying Salond is continually guilty when he wasn't is simply not tenable.

Ruth Davison on Channel 4 tonight talking about two women being let down - presumably the women who made allegations against Salmond, of which he was acquitted.

 

[Vic]

The idea of a vote of no confidence may be receding. What would it achieve? It looks petty. (Compare Johnson just brushing aside that Patel broke the ministerial code - "I don't accept the independent report".) She could just resign as First Minister, and still run (as leader of the SNP) for FM in the election. The people will decide anyway.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Ruth Davison on Channel 4 tonight talking about two women being let down - presumably the women who made allegations against Salmond, of which he was acquitted.

She's in the same boat too.
Apparently if you are a man you are guilty of being a man.
Oh and one of the women didn't want to go to court in the first place

 

[blue cigar]

Ruth Davison on Channel 4 tonight talking about two women being let down - presumably the women who made allegations against Salmond, of which he was acquitted.

Sturgeon is trying to shift the focus back to salmonds behaviour towards these women and others. He has not uttered a single word of remorse because he is a horrible ****, he relies on putting pressure on others to deflect from his shortcomings. Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson know what salmond is like, hopefully the public will now realise as well.
Incidentally, membership of the SNP has risen over the past week, Nichola will win this contest and rightly so.

 

[Coatigan]

Sturgeon is trying to shift the focus back to salmonds behaviour towards these women and others. He has not uttered a single word of remorse because he is a horrible ****, he relies on putting pressure on others to deflect from his shortcomings. Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson know what salmond is like, hopefully the public will now realise as well.
Incidentally, membership of the SNP has risen over the past week, Nichola will win this contest and rightly so.

You know, i do think once thendust settles, she might come out all the stronger for it, if she manages to get through the pressure storm.

The perspective on this seems to be shifting massively after her examining yesterday. I do also believe that through the indyref and them brexit processes, your average scot has become far more informed on politics and how to read situations as opposed to yaking them at headline face value. Long term, i think it will fade into the circus of total irrelevance that it is.

 

[Coatigan]

For a bit of context. The elected leader of a country just spent over 8 hours answering to a committee, openly and willingly, heart on sleeve with character and personality familiar to the electorate. When was the last time that happened, any minister, prime or otherwise, so publicly. It is is usually swept aside or via a back door.

Then, what is it that is really the issue, is it that significant. Former leader accused of serious harassment charges didnt get the options or help he expected to be entitled to. Hardly the iraq war inquiry, or misuse or dodgy funding of a campaign on knowingly false promises, or wrongful proroguing etc. Would it have been seen as better if he was offered the full protection from the accusations he expected? Or as the party looking after him at the expense of those with complaints.

Examining it is ultimately fairly stadard procedural legal matter and that is what these committees and courts exist for. Happens a lot of the time. Botched, unlawful, these are purely terms determining if procedure was followed correctly or not, and are down to qualified interpretation. I'm quite impressed by Both her and salmonds grasp of the law, but ultimately it is on their legal teams to ensure compliance. Cases get cross checked and appealed as a matter of course, the only reason this is prime public showcase is the joint opportunistic hope (opposition and media) that it could result in turmoil and unpredictability so close to an election. Otherwise, hardly significant.
Particularly with everything going on needing handled.

 

[Magicpole]

Sturgeon was excellent. A plot to derail her and Indy, backed by the BBC. She followed legal advice and refused to help out an old pal who put her in a terrible position due to his selfishness. Scottish Labour, similar to Starmer in England playing as poodles to the Tories, are going to be fucked right over in the coming election. I thought she spoke with honesty, now there's a difference when you look at Westminster. They played a disgraceful hand, and we won't fucking forget it. I am not bothered at the actions of the Tories, that's them to a tee, but Scottish Labour never learn that siding with the Tories here is a recipe for extinction. They have been destroyed here after the last Indy ref, this is another example of how monumentally out of touch they are.

 

[Magicpole]

For a bit of context. The elected leader of a country just spent over 8 hours answering to a committee, openly and willingly, heart on sleeve with character and personality familiar to the electorate. When was the last time that happened, any minister, prime or otherwise, so publicly. It is is usually swept aside or via a back door.

Then, what is it that is really the issue, is it that significant. Former leader accused of serious harassment charges didnt get the options or help he expected to be entitled to. Hardly the iraq war inquiry, or misuse or dodgy funding of a campaign on knowingly false promises, or wrongful proroguing etc. Would it have been seen as better if he was offered the full protection from the accusations he expected? Or as the party looking after him at the expense of those with complaints.

Examining it is ultimately fairly stadard procedural legal matter and that is what these committees and courts exist for. Happens a lot of the time. Botched, unlawful, these are purely terms determining if procedure was followed correctly or not, and are down to qualified interpretation. I'm quite impressed by Both her and salmonds grasp of the law, but ultimately it is on their legal teams to ensure compliance. Cases get cross checked and appealed as a matter of course, the only reason this is prime public showcase is the joint opportunistic hope (opposition and media) that it could result in turmoil and unpredictability so close to an election. Otherwise, hardly significant.
Particularly with everything going on needing handled.

She's a lawyer, she acted on legal advice until that legal advice changed. She wasn't prosecuting the case. Those who were have questions to answer. She was very clear about the chronology of events. The charge thst she broke the ministerial cidecwas shown to be horseshit. Everybody knows you onky get a free run at doing that if you're a Tory. The BBC handling of this shows their hand. A Tory minister broke the law and ministerial codeaccirding to the High Court, nothing to see, a trumped up pile of shit against Sturgeon and it's full on witch hunt on every broadcast. This whole shameful exercise has backfired in its objective and only proved that the Project Fear won't work this time. Well done Nicola. The most effective leader on the Island. And not a lying ****.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Sturgeon was excellent. A plot to derail her and Indy, backed by the BBC. She followed legal advice and refused to help out an old pal who put her in a terrible position due to his selfishness. Scottish Labour, similar to Starmer in England playing as poodles to the Tories, are going to be fucked right over in the coming election. I thought she spoke with honesty, now there's a difference when you look at Westminster. They played a disgraceful hand, and we won't fucking forget it. I am not bothered at the actions of the Tories, that's them to a tee, but Scottish Labour never learn that siding with the Tories here is a recipe for extinction. They have been destroyed here after the last Indy ref, this is another example of how monumentally out of touch they are.

Even though Sturgeon is unfit for office and should resign I just don't see the snp as having a competent replacement - maybe Blackford? She's still the best / most credible option as far as I can see.

 

[Coatigan]

Even though Sturgeon is unfit for office and should resign I just don't see the snp as having a competent replacement - maybe Blackford? She's still the best / most credible option as far as I can see.

How do you conclude that, from ongoing evidence being given. If anything, it shows the opposite.

Blackford is pretty poor. It is one thing shouting the same line over and over at Westminster, a whole other game handling all the interests of everyone in the party as well as the electorate. Joanna Cherry is probably more likely. But i would now doubt it will come to resignation and a change of leadership. And if Nicola is there for the election, and gets even the most modest of predicted votes, this little procedural dance and salmond's claims will mean nothing longer term.

 

[Saddleworth2]

For a bit of context. The elected leader of a country just spent over 8 hours answering to a committee, openly and willingly, heart on sleeve with character and personality familiar to the electorate. When was the last time that happened, any minister, prime or otherwise, so publicly. It is is usually swept aside or via a back door.

Then, what is it that is really the issue, is it that significant. Former leader accused of serious harassment charges didnt get the options or help he expected to be entitled to. Hardly the iraq war inquiry, or misuse or dodgy funding of a campaign on knowingly false promises, or wrongful proroguing etc. Would it have been seen as better if he was offered the full protection from the accusations he expected? Or as the party looking after him at the expense of those with complaints.

Examining it is ultimately fairly stadard procedural legal matter and that is what these committees and courts exist for. Happens a lot of the time. Botched, unlawful, these are purely terms determining if procedure was followed correctly or not, and are down to qualified interpretation. I'm quite impressed by Both her and salmonds grasp of the law, but ultimately it is on their legal teams to ensure compliance. Cases get cross checked and appealed as a matter of course, the only reason this is prime public showcase is the joint opportunistic hope (opposition and media) that it could result in turmoil and unpredictability so close to an election. Otherwise, hardly significant.
Particularly with everything going on needing handled.

It’s a top post mate. The significance to me is that it happened at all. Scrutiny of powerful politicians by parliament for wrong doing is a key part of any democratic system. Our political leaders must be capable of being held to account for wrong doing. Those that come on here to throw bricks at her should contrast this with the level of scrutiny Westminster and the media applies to the current government where it appears nothing can cause a resignation or sacking other than getting on the wrong side of the Prime Ministers current squeeze.

I personally think Sturgeon has been shown to ‘change her story’ about dates and the level if support she would provide to Salmond. Minor stuff for which she has been hounded and distracted in the middle of leading a response to a bloody pandemic. The Scottish Tories howling for a vote of no confidence. What a set of fucking bastards. I truly hope they get the backlash they so richly deserve in the May elections.