The Scottish Politics thread

[Magicpole]

Don't beat about the bush. Say what you really think.

I know. I am too kind to them. Just a lovely person really, but, always holding back to save their feelings. My mother would be proud. In fact she wouldn't, she was fucking mental, but, you know what I mean.

 

[mat]

If Sturgeon is unfit for office as a lot of English media/Commentators are declaring then what the fuck have we got running the country?

 

[west didsblue]

If Sturgeon is unfit for office as a lot of English media/Commentators are declaring then what the fuck have we got running the country?

A PM that lies without compunction or consequence and a chancellor that has to declare his budget is "honest" to differentiate it from everything else that comes out of the government. Trouble is he's lying as well. Meanwhile we've got a sycophantic media that doesn't hold them to account and consequently a neutered opposition party who can't be too critical for fear of a media backlash. What a fucking mess.

 

[metalblue]

There is a fundamental schism between Scotland and England that will exist until our politics are far more aligned. England votes Conservative, Scotland never will. It’s as fundamental as that and every year the Tories are in Westminster brings independence a year closer. They can’t change what they are and it’s what they are that is driving independence.
[/QUOTE]

When you say “never will” I presume you mean “never will again”. Which is a bold prediction.

As for Sturgeon; I honestly can’t see what the fuss is about, it’s one of those arguments that is about not following some procedure or other - outside political circles I can’t imagine many folk care. Perhaps the reason it is being kept alive is testimony to how her not having put a foot wrong otherwise?

 

[Saddleworth2]

There is a fundamental schism between Scotland and England that will exist until our politics are far more aligned. England votes Conservative, Scotland never will. It’s as fundamental as that and every year the Tories are in Westminster brings independence a year closer. They can’t change what they are and it’s what they are that is driving independence.

When you say “never will” I presume you mean “never will again”. Which is a bold prediction.

As for Sturgeon; I honestly can’t see what the fuss is about, it’s one of those arguments that is about not following some procedure or other - outside political circles I can’t imagine many folk care. Perhaps the reason it is being kept alive is testimony to how her not having put a foot wrong otherwise?
[/QUOTE]
Not that bold. Its 70 years or so since they were the majority and their popularity shows no signs whatsoever of recovering.

The 'fuss' is coming mainly from her political opponents and media. I wonder why.

 

[Coatigan]

Over 5000 new SNP members joined in 24 hours following Nicola's questioning. Thats insane.

Not one single paper has claimed this to be the political posturing witch hunt it is by the way, not one commentary peice has argued it the oppurtunist attempt at inflicting turmoil ahead of an election.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

When you say “never will” I presume you mean “never will again”. Which is a bold prediction.

As for Sturgeon; I honestly can’t see what the fuss is about, it’s one of those arguments that is about not following some procedure or other - outside political circles I can’t imagine many folk care. Perhaps the reason it is being kept alive is testimony to how her not having put a foot wrong otherwise?

Not that bold. Its 70 years or so since they were the majority and their popularity shows no signs whatsoever of recovering.

The 'fuss' is coming mainly from her political opponents and media. I wonder why.
[/QUOTE]

Over 5000 new SNP members joined in 24 hours following Nicola's questioning. Thats insane.

Not one single paper has claimed this to be the political posturing witch hunt it is by the way, not one commentary peice has argued it the oppurtunist attempt at inflicting turmoil ahead of an election.

A lot of parallels with the rw media pursuit of Corbyn, and commensurate increase in party membership. I suspect like Corbyn she will be subjected to a prolonged corrosive drip of negativity until the indy mvt is ground down. Like socialism, Scottish independence is not seen as good for national security and when push comes to shove UK defence / NATO need Faslane, Lossiemouth, and soon a space program up near Sutherland. There may be scope for further devolution and autonomy from Westminster, but actual independence with be derailed by fair means or foul.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I don't think Davidson's seat in the Lords can come quickly enough for her

 

[Coatigan]

A lot of parallels with the rw media pursuit of Corbyn, and commensurate increase in party membership. I suspect like Corbyn she will be subjected to a prolonged corrosive drip of negativity until the indy mvt is ground down. Like socialism, Scottish independence is not seen as good for national security and when push comes to shove UK defence / NATO need Faslane, Lossiemouth, and soon a space program up near Sutherland. There may be scope for further devolution and autonomy from Westminster, but actual independence with be derailed by fair means or foul.

Mibby. Mibby naw. Time will tell.

The foul is certainly not working though. Might be time to try give fair a go.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Mibby. Mibby naw. Time will tell.

The foul is certainly not working though. Might be time to try give fair a go.

Who has actually delivered more independence to Scotland though? - Sturgeon or Tony Blair? The devolved parliament was a triumph - I'm not suggesting Scots be grateful btw, it was / is their right. What Sturgeon has done with this decentralised power is to take it and recentralise it in a way unseen in a married couple since the Ceaușescu's in Romania or the Marcos regime in the Philippines. Until the inappropriate control of/ influence upon the judiciary was outed this week I'd admit those comparisons were over-egging it. I'm at a loss this week tbh to decipher who is in the wrong. What I see is a vindictive Salmond, Sturgeon yesterday looking like a 5 yr old child with chocolate round their mouth trying to explain the missing bar of dairy milk, and the conservatives cynically trying to make hay. Everyone naturally tries to frame their 'side' as the winner in the absence of a knockout blow, but i think they all just come out of it looking like cunts. Salmond with his OJ Simpson style innocence, Sturgeon with her fantastically selective memory, the weak partisan judiciary, and the tory woman and her opportunistic confidence vote. I'd say something bad about Scottish Labour too, but the tragedy is I've not even noticed them.

 

[Coatigan]

Who has actually delivered more independence to Scotland though? - Sturgeon or Tony Blair? The devolved parliament was a triumph - I'm not suggesting Scots be grateful btw, it was / is their right. What Sturgeon has done with this decentralised power is to take it and recentralise it in a way unseen in a married couple since the Ceaușescu's in Romania or the Marcos regime in the Philippines. Until the inappropriate control of/ influence upon the judiciary was outed this week I'd admit those comparisons were over-egging it. I'm at a loss this week tbh to decipher who is in the wrong. What I see is a vindictive Salmond, Sturgeon yesterday looking like a 5 yr old child with chocolate round their mouth trying to explain the missing bar of dairy milk, and the conservatives cynically trying to make hay. Everyone naturally tries to frame their 'side' as the winner in the absence of a knockout blow, but i think they all just come out of it looking like cunts. Salmond with his OJ Simpson style innocence, Sturgeon with her fantastically selective memory, the weak partisan judiciary, and the tory woman and her opportunistic confidence vote. I'd say something bad about Scottish Labour too, but the tragedy is I've not even noticed them.

Interesting. Humourous over the top metaphors aside, there is some validity to some of what you say.

I think labour might surprise a few btw, if they don't shit all over their new leader (or if the Tories don't do it for them). Not as far as affecting the snp share perhaps, but i can see them dispersing the tory smokescreen of being the credible party of the union. Right man for the job, been building up to it steadily for years, just at the totally wrong time.

 

[Vic]

Davison has certainly overreached.

"What do you think of a Conservative minister breaking the ministerial code in the UK Parliament, settling a legal case out of court for £345,000, and getting a vote of confidence from your English prime minister?"

 

[Saddleworth2]

What Sturgeon has done with this decentralised power is to take it and recentralise it in a way unseen in a married couple since the Ceaușescu's in Romania or the Marcos regime in the Philippines.

I’m afraid if you want any credibility on this thread and don’t want to be seen purely as a wum, you need to give some evidence and fact to the claim that Scotland is run by a dictatorship.
Given that she was grilled by adversaries for 8 hours the other day, it is indeed a strange type of dictatorship.
come on mate, you are significantly better than that assertion.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I’m afraid if you want any credibility on this thread and don’t want to be seen purely as a wum, you need to give some evidence and fact to the claim that Scotland is run by a dictatorship.
Given that she was grilled by adversaries for 8 hours the other day, it is indeed a strange type of dictatorship.
come on mate, you are significantly better than that assertion.

Thank you for your kind words of moderation ;-) she is of course not an actual dictator, and any licence she may have to occasionally behave as such is due to her colossal (democratic) majority.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Thank you for your kind words of moderation ;-) she is of course not an actual dictator, and any licence she may have to occasionally behave as such is due to her colossal (democratic) majority.

I suspect I occasionally take what you say too literally. Sorry for that :-)

Note to self. lighten up crazy man.

 

[shootmeifipost10k]

After having the tv on in the background both days when they were giving evidence. What I took out of it is was both of them did quite well stating their case, but I imagine despite taking the oath both for a better word stretched the truth to the point of snapping about quite a few things.
I think both of them went down the emotional feel sorry for me route a little too much for my liking and all the more with both of them being arictulate enough to not go for that, but both did.

I think Alex made the better case, which was to be expected as he is a better speaker of the two. No matter what anyone thinks of him and his behaviour you just have to say he is and was a decent politician and speaker, he had that panel in his hands most of the time and strolled through it.
I think Nicola did ok for the most part but wavered a little too much towards her emotions but to be expected I suppose as it involved her idol in many ways, I admit I did chuckle a few times when she said from memory or from recollection several times and gave dates. Then came the 29th march questions and it just keeps escaping her. brilliant defence though.

I think Alex will drift off in to the distance with a coy smile knowing the fuss he as caused. For his part I do believe some parts of the SNP wanted shut of him and there was most likely some attempt to shaft him. The problem they have is that he is politically too smart for most of them. But it looks like this fall out will do the job in the end and he'll end up being like Tony Blair, saying really important stuff that nobobdy listens to anymore.
Nicola will come out of this smelling of roses and shit in equal measure, she will most likely gain support from wavering voters in the upcoming election and will be more powerfull in the SNP itself. She could have thrown some of them under the bus for pratically fucking up big time but stood by them and is taking most of the stick for it. I do think there is now a small secret society amongst them hoping none break the silence.
There is no doubt she knew the questions the day after were coming from the other party's. She batted them off pretty well, if not like a child with her hand in the cookie jar because most with an open mind now know a selective memory is a decent defence for telling a few porkies. I know one thing, she would have had Ruth Davidison in bits if it had been the other way around in this sorry mini drama.
For me I don't think she should either resign or get kicked out on the basis it was just a mess from start to finish and basically some people out of their depth and getting their arse kicked by a better politician and she has to carry the can for them.
Following on form all this she can now look around the SNP and can quite easily see none of them would have come through this better than she will and is smiling at them through gritted teeth with the may elections coming up.

 

[Coatigan]

After having the tv on in the background both days when they were giving evidence. What I took out of it is was both of them did quite well stating their case, but I imagine despite taking the oath both for a better word stretched the truth to the point of snapping about quite a few things.
I think both of them went down the emotional feel sorry for me route a little too much for my liking and all the more with both of them being arictulate enough to not go for that, but both did.

I think Alex made the better case, which was to be expected as he is a better speaker of the two. No matter what anyone thinks of him and his behaviour you just have to say he is and was a decent politician and speaker, he had that panel in his hands most of the time and strolled through it.
I think Nicola did ok for the most part but wavered a little too much towards her emotions but to be expected I suppose as it involved her idol in many ways, I admit I did chuckle a few times when she said from memory or from recollection several times and gave dates. Then came the 29th march questions and it just keeps escaping her. brilliant defence though.

I think Alex will drift off in to the distance with a coy smile knowing the fuss he as caused. For his part I do believe some parts of the SNP wanted shut of him and there was most likely some attempt to shaft him. The problem they have is that he is politically too smart for most of them. But it looks like this fall out will do the job in the end and he'll end up being like Tony Blair, saying really important stuff that nobobdy listens to anymore.
Nicola will come out of this smelling of roses and shit in equal measure, she will most likely gain support from wavering voters in the upcoming election and will be more powerfull in the SNP itself. She could have thrown some of them under the bus for pratically fucking up big time but stood by them and is taking most of the stick for it. I do think there is now a small secret society amongst them hoping none break the silence.
There is no doubt she knew the questions the day after were coming from the other party's. She batted them off pretty well, if not like a child with her hand in the cookie jar because most with an open mind now know a selective memory is a decent defence for telling a few porkies. I know one thing, she would have had Ruth Davidison in bits if it had been the other way around in this sorry mini drama.
For me I don't think she should either resign or get kicked out on the basis it was just a mess from start to finish and basically some people out of their depth and getting their arse kicked by a better politician and she has to carry the can for them.
Following on form all this she can now look around the SNP and can quite easily see none of them would have come through this better than she will and is smiling at them through gritted teeth with the may elections coming up.

That is a very good and fair summary.

A few things i think going forward.

The timing of the inquiry result could be highly interesting. It could come After the election, given the amount of questioning and evidence to look through, it would in no way be strange for the committee to say we need a few months to determine this. By which point, it just won't mean jack either way.

Close to and ahead of the election, gets more interesting. I don't really now see how anyone can even call for a vote of no confidence Or resignations let alone expect to win one. They've managed to milk their 12 minutes of fame over this for maximum fuss over f.all, but probably as gar as they can take it.
But, ahead of the election and if the result is negative, a whole lot of calls and pressure with some real grounding Could create a bit of turmoil. Which could go both ways, even to a point of resulting with an even more dominant SNP vmbut under a different (in my opinion nit as good, capable Or moderate) leader that actually didn't even have to work for it, but has such backing.

Finally, I agree on Salmond, going forward. Part of me even expects him to in some way endorse Nicola once he's got the big waves he wanted out the way, in one of his usual, 'now there has to be..' rallying messages, where he will spur people on for a 'deapite mistakes being made, renewed focus etc' towards what he ultimately has always pursued as well. Most wont care probably, but it will resonate with the more hardline nats, and it will absolutely piss off the media, and for that alone i could see him with a parting shot.

 

[Saddleworth2]

That is a very good and fair summary.

A few things i think going forward.

The timing of the inquiry result could be highly interesting. It could come After the election, given the amount of questioning and evidence to look through, it would in no way be strange for the committee to say we need a few months to determine this. By which point, it just won't mean jack either way.

Close to and ahead of the election, gets more interesting. I don't really now see how anyone can even call for a vote of no confidence Or resignations let alone expect to win one. They've managed to milk their 12 minutes of fame over this for maximum fuss over f.all, but probably as gar as they can take it.
But, ahead of the election and if the result is negative, a whole lot of calls and pressure with some real grounding Could create a bit of turmoil. Which could go both ways, even to a point of resulting with an even more dominant SNP vmbut under a different (in my opinion nit as good, capable Or moderate) leader that actually didn't even have to work for it, but has such backing.

Finally, I agree on Salmond, going forward. Part of me even expects him to in some way endorse Nicola once he's got the big waves he wanted out the way, in one of his usual, 'now there has to be..' rallying messages, where he will spur people on for a 'deapite mistakes being made, renewed focus etc' towards what he ultimately has always pursued as well. Most wont care probably, but it will resonate with the more hardline nats, and it will absolutely piss off the media, and for that alone i could see him with a parting shot.

even if the outcome of the report is negative towards her I can’t envisage her resigning. She will tough it out.
Salmond is vindictive. I see no scenario where he will make his peace with Sturgeon . Much more likely to throw his weight behind a challenger if one emerges.
I agree with you though @shootmeifipost10k assessment was very fair.

 

[Coatigan]

even if the outcome of the report is negative towards her I can’t envisage her resigning. She will tough it out.
Salmond is vindictive. I see no scenario where he will make his peace with Sturgeon . Much more likely to throw his weight behind a challenger if one emerges.
I agree with you though @shootmeifipost10k assessment was very fair.

Hmm. Let's remember each other's takes on it and see how it plays out.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Hmm. Let's remember each other's takes on it and see how it plays out.

A pint to the most accurate.