Coronavirus (2021) thread

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davealvers said:
Hmm it’s actually extremely convenient timing…just in time to justify a delay to 21st and another U-turn. They must have used up all their variant quota a la winter lockdown!

FWIW I don’t have a massive problem with a short delay but it’s laughable how they manipulate people and wheel these things out that ‘aren’t their fault’ at such opportune moments.
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Not everything's a conspiracy.
 
marcus said:
Am i wrong to think communists by there very nature desire state control? So shes going to love suggesting control continues
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Not quite, because communist theory suggests a state shouldn't exist.

A communist would argue it's about people's control of production and subsequent equality, but there are always people in charge, Stalin, Mao etc. meaning there is always a de facto state, and that 'state' has ultimate power.

You were in effect correct, but technically (the best type of correct) not.
 
everythingchangesbutblue said:
Not everything's a conspiracy.
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Well it was slightly tongue in cheek although I don’t trust these despots one bit so won’t be giving them the benefit of the doubt. Kate Bingham’s vaccine success doesn’t change the fact we still have the same bunch of twats in charge that have screwed everything else up so badly. But that’s not for this thread so I’ll leave it there.
 
davealvers said:
Well it was slightly tongue in cheek although I don’t trust these despots one bit so won’t be giving them the benefit of the doubt. Kate Bingham’s vaccine success doesn’t change the fact we still have the same bunch of twats in charge that have screwed everything else up so badly. But that’s not for this thread so I’ll leave it there.
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I agree with you 100% on the government it's just we have always been told vaccine production would fluctuate.
 
Cheesy said:
Need some help please....

My 27 year old stepson has said that he's not going to have the Pfizer, AZ or Moderns vaccines as they haven't been tested fully in regards to any effect they may have on fertility. I'm not sure where he's got this information from (or even if there is any truth in it) so I'd really appreciate it if anyone could point me in the direction of 'proper' scientific papers showing that there isn't an issue here.

I'm worried that he's just started to dip his toe into the anti-vax shit that's out there. If he does go down that particular rabbit hole then it's no exaggeration that it will be then end of father/son relationship after 23 years :-(
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You’d stop speaking to your son over a vaccine?
 
Manchester1894 said:
Humans really only look out for themselves don't they. Talking themselves into why June 21 should be lifted to suit their own needs. 16 months of lockdowns and they cannot handle a few weeks whilst we get more jabs in arms. Such a selfish race aren't we?
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On the other hand, it’s very easy to take your position if your livelihood hasn’t been affected and you have been able to pay your bills. If we removed furlough payments today I bet we’d get a lot more ppl saying we should reopen.
 
Manchester1894 said:
Humans really only look out for themselves don't they. Talking themselves into why June 21 should be lifted to suit their own needs. 16 months of lockdowns and they cannot handle a few weeks whilst we get more jabs in arms. Such a selfish race aren't we?
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The irony of calling people selfish because they don’t agree with what you want to happen. Could it not be you that is selfish? The vast majority want the 21st to happen as planned.
 
True_Blue69 said:
The irony of calling people selfish because they don’t agree with what you want to happen. Could it not be you that is selfish? The vast majority want the 21st to happen as planned.
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If the data points at an issue with that date, and the gov move the date a bit, people shrugging and saying "Oh well, its a few extra weeks" isn't selfish. its following the data and the Gov.

People wanting it to open up despite the data + Gov is the selfish part.
 
grunge said:
If the data points at an issue with that date, and the gov move the date a bit, people shrugging and saying "Oh well, its a few extra weeks" isn't selfish. its following the data and the Gov.

People wanting it to open up despite the data + Gov is the selfish part.
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You wouldn't think you would have to explain that would you?
 
feelymcfeel said:
Not quite, because communist theory suggests a state shouldn't exist.

A communist would argue it's about people's control of production and subsequent equality, but there are always people in charge, Stalin, Mao etc. meaning there is always a de facto state, and that 'state' has ultimate power.

You were in effect correct, but technically (the best type of correct) not.
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Wasnt far off
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I think you're probably wrong to believe the Daily Mail on Michie.

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Ive not read a paper in years. I was quoting a previous post

still stand by my original quote and one ive repeated.
some people like to feel important and wont like creeping back to the shadows of anonymity.
could name a few on here!!
Never saw them post re City matters, busy as hell on this thread
 
grunge said:
If the data points at an issue with that date, and the gov move the date a bit, people shrugging and saying "Oh well, its a few extra weeks" isn't selfish. its following the data and the Gov.

People wanting it to open up despite the data + Gov is the selfish part.
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That’s not what the poster said though.
 
Having to stay at home for 13 months with a 15 year old with cerebral palsy, I just pray that the so called anti vaxxers look at the real facts and devastation that Covid causes ? Personally I really struggled not being allowed to go to work and my mental health and hers really suffered . I never like to judge people but I really pray that whoever can get the vaccine just go ahead and get it ? The thought of another lockdown will effect so so many people . People really need to not listen to fake news and just go for it . Then we can all hopefully just get out of this as soon as possible .
 
johnnymarrsbarres said:
Why does nobody seem to want to own the mandatory vaccinations argument?

Individual liberty is fine when it only affects the individual. When one persons choice impacts other people’s lives, it’s a different matter.

“It’s my right to choose if I want to drink drive or not, I’m only going to crash and hurt myself.”

Err, no. Hence drink driving is illegal.
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Because you set a precedent. If you can force people to have this jab then you can force women to have an abortion if some shade of government decrees it necessary one day.

The right approach is not to force but to make it consequential to the person making the clearly wrong choice by not having the same freedoms that they might if they made the right choice. That is simple to do with vaccinations because they are choosing to put others at risk out of selfishness, perhaps, or genuine phobias over needles, etc but can have no legitimate argument if their lifestyle is restricted less than it might otherwise be because of making a choice that is a risk to others.

After all that is how making drunk driving illegal works. It does not stop people doing it if they wish. But they know if they do they will pay a price.

This is how a democracy functions without becoming a dictatorship. Not by troops marching you off to the vaccine centre and holding your arms down but by making it more sensible and beneficial for you to do the right thing.

Then those moaning about their lack of freedom because they chose not to have a vaccination have zero case to argue with because everyone can see they made their choice aware of the consequences.

You force and coerce and you probably win empathy and more people might rebel against vaccines because they are seen as a step into a society they detest so take a stance they might otherwise not do.
 
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Cheesy said:
Need some help please....

My 27 year old stepson has said that he's not going to have the Pfizer, AZ or Moderns vaccines as they haven't been tested fully in regards to any effect they may have on fertility. I'm not sure where he's got this information from (or even if there is any truth in it) so I'd really appreciate it if anyone could point me in the direction of 'proper' scientific papers showing that there isn't an issue here.

I'm worried that he's just started to dip his toe into the anti-vax shit that's out there. If he does go down that particular rabbit hole then it's no exaggeration that it will be then end of father/son relationship after 23 years :-(
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One of my best mates is expecting a child. They're a few months in and so far its all looking good *touch wood*. His wife was double jabbed before getting pregnant. Whatever happens, I'd not suggest giving up on your stepson. Seems a bit over the top.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Preclinical (animal) data is used for the assessment on female fertility, and more generally on organ toxicity including testicular.

For example, the Pfizer vaccine on female fertility:

"Lack of effects on female fertility and prenatal and postnatal offspring development in rats with BNT162b2, a mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine" (my bold)

Lack of effects on female fertility and prenatal and postnatal offspring development in rats with BNT162b2, a mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine - PMC

BNT162b2 is a vaccine developed to prevent coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). BNT162b2 is a lipid nanoparticle formulated nucleoside-modified messenger RNA (mRNA) encoding the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) spike ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Summary of the nonclinical data here.

View attachment 18829
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Yep, I was talking about male fertility. Same applies though, no evidence whatsoever of it having any impact.
 
Healdplace said:
Because you set a precedent. If you can force people to have this jab then you can force women to have an abortion if some shade of government decrees it necessary one day.

The right approach is not to force but to make it consequential to the person making the clearly wrong choice by not having the same freedoms that they might if they made the right choice. That is simple to do with vaccinations because they are choosing to put others at risk out of selfishness, perhaps, or genuine phobias over needles, etc but can have no legitimate argument if their lifestyle is restricted less than it might otherwise be because of making a choice that is a risk to others.

After all that is how making drunk driving illegal works. It does not stop people doing it if they wish. But they know if they do they will pay a price.

This is how a democracy functions without becoming a dictatorship. Not by troops marching you off to the vaccine centre and holding your arms down but by making it more sensible and beneficial for you to do the right thing.

Then those moaning about their lack of freedom because they chose not to have a vaccination have zero case to argue with because everyone can see they made their choice aware of the consequences.

You force and coerce and you probably win empathy and more people might rebel against vaccines because they are seen as a step into a society they detest so take a stance they might otherwise not do.
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Dead right. A lot of people simply don't seem to be able to look beyond arms length, and what might seem like a sensible thing right at this moment for this specific situation opens doors for all sorts of potentially shady stuff further down the line.

It's exactly why I'm opposed to vaccination passports too - having to publically declare private health information may seem sensible at this specific point in time, but the potential for abuse in the future for different things is something i can't get behind.
 
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