Coronavirus (2021) thread

[Marvin]

Surprised you are not all jumping up and down about the Pfizer news...

early data from the company’s own studies shows that a third booster dose generates antibody levels that are five to 10-fold higher than after the second dose.

The only thing keeping Covid alive is variant evolution, and if there are vaccines in the pipeline that are that effective then in the medium term it's just had its legs cut from under it.

I seriously hope that these pharmaceutical companies are not keeping these products back in order to maximise their profits from existing products. OK the current Pfizer vaccine might work but if you have one that produces 5 to 10 times the amount of antibodies, then why what's stopping you from launching it?

Seems the BBC's news a few days ago that they understood that the booster campaign would not be based on variant specific jabs was wrong.

 

[Gremlin]

Christ, nearly a fifth of us would like a 10pm curfew permanently? So much for our famed ‘liberty of the individual’ outlook.

Mori polling for The Economist shows some Brits support anti-covid restrictions *permanently*, regardless of covid risk.

- 19% for nighttime curfews
- 26% for closing casinos and clubs
- 35% for travel quarantine
- 40% for masks

They're probably the ones who live next door to the pubs

 

[artfuldodger]

Covid: Children's extremely low risk confirmed by study

The overall risk of death is around two in a million children, scientists looking at England's data estimate.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[twosips]

Surprised you are not all jumping up and down about the Pfizer news...

early data from the company’s own studies shows that a third booster dose generates antibody levels that are five to 10-fold higher than after the second dose.

The only thing keeping Covid alive is variant evolution, and if there are vaccines in the pipeline that are that effective then in the medium term it's just had its legs cut from under it.

I seriously hope that these pharmaceutical companies are not keeping these products back in order to maximise their profits from existing products. OK the current Pfizer vaccine might work but if you have one that produces 5 to 10 times the amount of antibodies, then why what's stopping you from launching it?

Seems the BBC's news a few days ago that they understood that the booster campaign would not be based on variant specific jabs was wrong.

I think it's because most people kinda hope to not be locked into what could possibly feel like a never-ending cycle of jabs tbh. It doesn't feel like good news on a personal level, just kind of exhausting and like we're gonna start all over again, constantly. It's a personal thing, but seeing signs up everywhere outside about jabs and all this just makes me miserable. It's all very dystopian, and I really can't be fucked with another huge, massive rollout and constant pandemic reminders everywhere.

And you also touched on the cynicism yourself - I can't pretend i'll ever be happy having to think about what pharmaceutical companies are gonna roll out for us next. There will always be one slightly better, and they will always have money to make from it. I'd rather just ya know...not have to think about it a tall. Tl:dr version - the idea of boosters just makes me sigh if i'm being brutally honest.

 

[grunge]

Christ, nearly a fifth of us would like a 10pm curfew permanently? So much for our famed ‘liberty of the individual’ outlook.

Mori polling for The Economist shows some Brits support anti-covid restrictions *permanently*, regardless of covid risk.

- 19% for nighttime curfews
- 26% for closing casinos and clubs
- 35% for travel quarantine
- 40% for masks

I bet if anyone was asked a similar ( not masks and quarantine obv ) these questions before Covid you would have had a similar set of result.

There are a set amount of people out there who have views like this as a standard.

 

[Marvin]

I think it's because most people kinda hope to not be locked into what could possibly feel like a never-ending cycle of jabs tbh. It doesn't feel like good news on a personal level, just kind of exhausting and like we're gonna start all over again, constantly. It's a personal thing, but seeing signs up everywhere outside about jabs and all this just makes me miserable. It's all very dystopian, and I really can't be fucked with another huge, massive rollout and constant pandemic reminders everywhere.

And you also touched on the cynicism yourself - I can't pretend i'll ever be happy having to think about what pharmaceutical companies are gonna roll out for us next. There will always be one slightly better, and they will always have money to make from it. I'd rather just ya know...not have to think about it a tall. Tl:dr version - the idea of boosters just makes me sigh if i'm being brutally honest.

All these pharma companies must have projects with variant-based vaccines. A state will release a new vaccine as soon as it is viable. These companies have doubtless other motives in mind.

But it's still good news, however cynical we maybe, that we are staying ahead of the virus.

One huge difference in the next 12 months is that when we vaccinate into the population in the UK, 90% plus will already have some kind of exposure to Covid so runaway variant spawning surges are imo ending with this wave.

The current cycle of waves spawning variants is unlikely to happen in the future because immunity is not going to melt away that quickly. This really is very good news.

Boosters have the probability of ending this. How else do we bring the cycle to an end? It wont stop at the delta variant it will keep going until it is optimised for human transmission. I think you have some family with whom you have had vaccine arguments!

 

[domalino]

I seriously hope that these pharmaceutical companies are not keeping these products back in order to maximise their profits from existing products. OK the current Pfizer vaccine might work but if you have one that produces 5 to 10 times the amount of antibodies, then why what's stopping you from launching it?

AFAIK Pfizer hasn't made a new vaccine - that would take months of licensing and testing even for a variant of an existing vaccine.

The booster shot is literally just that, a third shot of the same thing. That's what they've petitioned the CDC for permission to do.

It's the bodies immune response realising this is a repetitive threat that makes it react so much more strongly and produce a stronger and longer lasting antibody response.

 

[BobKowalski]

I bet if anyone was asked a similar ( not masks and quarantine obv ) these questions before Covid you would have had a similar set of result.

There are a set amount of people out there who have views like this as a standard.

Agreed.

That 20% of the country would prefer to live under authoritarian rule where you have to be indoors by 10pm is an eye opener though.

 

[twosips]

Agreed.

That 20% of the country would prefer to live under authoritarian rule where you have to be indoors by 10pm is an eye opener though.

I would just guess that 20% are what we usually would just call miserable old cunts. There's definitely a lot of them, so not too surprising.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

AFAIK Pfizer hasn't made a new vaccine - that would take months of licensing and testing even for a variant of an existing vaccine.

The booster shot is literally just that, a third shot of the same thing. That's what they've petitioned the CDC for permission to do.

It's the bodies immune response realising this is a repetitive threat that makes it react so much more strongly and produce a stronger and longer lasting antibody response.

Fully agree, but on the first point you may be interested in the approach being taken to variant vaccine development. This is from UK, but the main regulators (FDA, EMA) are doing similar.

Modified COVID-19 vaccines for variants to be fast-tracked, says MHRA and other regulators

Future vaccine modifications that respond to new variants of coronavirus to be made available quickly to UK recipients, without compromising on safety, quality or effectiveness.

www.gov.uk

I think the studies outlined there are currently ongoing against the Beta variant.

I think there are several reasons variant vaccines aren't being contemplated for the boosters:

(1) There's more than one variant and they emerge quickly (look at Delta). How to choose which?
(2) The variants may be more different to each other than they are to the original wildtype. So you get better protection against multiple variants with the original.
(3) The emerging evidence is that a third booster with the original works extremely well. So why bother with changing?

 

[Rammy Blue]

AFAIK Pfizer hasn't made a new vaccine - that would take months of licensing and testing even for a variant of an existing vaccine.

The booster shot is literally just that, a third shot of the same thing. That's what they've petitioned the CDC for permission to do.

It's the bodies immune response realising this is a repetitive threat that makes it react so much more strongly and produce a stronger and longer lasting antibody response.

You are correct, although it does state too that they are starting trials in August of the updated vaccine that will target the virus differently.

 

[Marvin]

Fully agree, but on the first point you may be interested in the approach being taken to variant vaccine development. This is from UK, but the main regulators (FDA, EMA) are doing similar.

Modified COVID-19 vaccines for variants to be fast-tracked, says MHRA and other regulators

Future vaccine modifications that respond to new variants of coronavirus to be made available quickly to UK recipients, without compromising on safety, quality or effectiveness.

www.gov.uk

I think the studies outlined there are currently ongoing against the Beta variant.

I think there are several reasons variant vaccines aren't being contemplated for the boosters:

(1) There's more than one variant and they emerge quickly (look at Delta). How to choose which?
(2) The variants may be more different to each other than they are to the original wildtype. So you get better protection against multiple variants with the original.
(3) The emerging evidence is that a third booster with the original works extremely well. So why bother with changing?

These are variant-specific vaccines we are talking about. I wouldn't be excited about a 3rd dose of an existing vaccine.

GSK, Moderna and Pfizer are all working on vaccines that target variants.

 

[Rammy Blue]

Fully agree, but on the first point you may be interested in the approach being taken to variant vaccine development. This is from UK, but the main regulators (FDA, EMA) are doing similar.

Modified COVID-19 vaccines for variants to be fast-tracked, says MHRA and other regulators

Future vaccine modifications that respond to new variants of coronavirus to be made available quickly to UK recipients, without compromising on safety, quality or effectiveness.

www.gov.uk

I think the studies outlined there are currently ongoing against the Beta variant.

I think there are several reasons variant vaccines aren't being contemplated for the boosters:

(1) There's more than one variant and they emerge quickly (look at Delta). How to choose which?
(2) The variants may be more different to each other than they are to the original wildtype. So you get better protection against multiple variants with the original.
(3) The emerging evidence is that a third booster with the original works extremely well. So why bother with changing?

This the pertinent part that answers your point above…

And it said it's also developing a new formulation for a booster dose that may more thoroughly protect people from new variants.
"While Pfizer and BioNTech believe a third dose of BNT162b2 has the potential to preserve the highest levels of protective efficacy against all currently known variants including Delta, the companies are remaining vigilant and are developing an updated version of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the Delta variant," the company said. Current vaccines target just a piece of the spike protein -- the part of the virus it uses to attach to cells.
"The first batch of the mRNA for the trial has already been manufactured at BioNTech's facility in Mainz, Germany. The Companies anticipate the clinical studies to begin in August, subject to regulatory approvals."

 

[Rammy Blue]

These are variant-specific vaccines we are talking about. I wouldn't be excited about a 3rd dose of an existing vaccine.

GSK, Moderna and Pfizer are all working on vaccines that target variants.

No Marvin, your earlier post was wrong, don’t rewrite history, lol.

You said…

Surprised you are not all jumping up and down about the Pfizer news...

early data from the company’s own studies shows that a third booster dose generates antibody levels that are five to 10-fold higher than after the second dose.

The only thing keeping Covid alive is variant evolution, and if there are vaccines in the pipeline that are that effective then in the medium term it's just had its legs cut from under it.

I seriously hope that these pharmaceutical companies are not keeping these products back in order to maximise their profits from existing products. OK the current Pfizer vaccine might work but if you have one that produces 5 to 10 times the amount of antibodies, then why what's stopping you from launching it?

Seems the BBC's news a few days ago that they understood that the booster campaign would not be based on variant specific jabs was wrong.

 

[domalino]

These are variant-specific vaccines we are talking about. I wouldn't be excited about a 3rd dose of an existing vaccine.

But you were excited about it?

Surprised you are not all jumping up and down about the Pfizer news...​

​

early data from the company’s own studies shows that a third booster dose generates antibody levels that are five to 10-fold higher than after the second dose.​

 

[Marvin]

No Marvin, your earlier post was wrong, don’t rewrite history, lol.

You said…

What is wrong with that?

 

[Marvin]

here's the Pfizer statement

It's important to have a vaccine that is specific to the latest variants. That's far more valuable than a booster based on existing vaccine because they just raise antibodies against a virus that is no longer in circulation.

It's not just important to have high antibody titres but to have antibody titres that are diverse and neutralising.

Pfizer and BioNTech have seen encouraging data in the ongoing booster trial of a third dose of the current BNT162b2 vaccine. Initial data from the study demonstrate that a booster dose given 6 months after the second dose has a consistent tolerability profile while eliciting high neutralization titers against the wild type and the Beta variant, which are 5 to 10 times higher than after two primary doses. The companies expect to publish more definitive data soon as well as in a peer-reviewed journal and plan to submit the data to the FDA, EMA and other regulatory authorities in the coming weeks. In addition, data from a recent Nature paper demonstrate that immune sera obtained shortly after dose 2 of the primary two dose series of BNT162b2 have strong neutralization titers against the Delta variant (B.1.617.2 lineage) in laboratory tests. The companies anticipate that a third dose will boost those antibody titers even higher, similar to how the third dose performs for the Beta variant (B.1.351). Pfizer and BioNTech are conducting preclinical and clinical tests to confirm this hypothesis. While Pfizer and BioNTech believe a third dose of BNT162b2 has the potential to preserve the highest levels of protective efficacy against all currently known variants including Delta, the companies are remaining vigilant and are developing an updated version of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the Delta variant. The first batch of the mRNA for the trial has already been manufactured. The Companies anticipate the clinical studies to begin in August, subject to regulatory approvals. As seen in real world data released from the Israel Ministry of Health, vaccine efficacy in preventing both infection and symptomatic disease has declined six months post-vaccination, although efficacy in preventing serious illnesses remains high. Additionally, during this period the Delta variant is becoming the dominant variant in Israel as well as many other countries. These findings are consistent with an ongoing analysis from the Companies’ Phase 3 study. That is why we have said, and we continue to believe that it 2 is likely, based on the totality of the data we have to date, that a third dose may be needed within 6 to 12 months after full vaccination. While protection against severe disease remained high across the full 6 months, a decline in efficacy against symptomatic disease over time and the continued emergence of variants are expected. Based on the totality of the data they have to date, Pfizer and BioNTech believe that a third dose may be beneficial to maintain the highest levels of protection.

 

[Marvin]

But you were excited about it?

Surprised you are not all jumping up and down about the Pfizer news...​

​

early data from the company’s own studies shows that a third booster dose generates antibody levels that are five to 10-fold higher than after the second dose.​

I am because we need booster jabs that target the current variants and not the Wuhan virus.

These companies don't shoot down their existing products that are in circulation but the escape mutations are accumulating and so we need an updated vaccine. Its good news.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I am because we need booster jabs that target the current variants and not the Wuhan virus.

These companies don't shoot down their existing products that are in circulation but the escape mutations are accumulating and so we need an updated vaccine. Its good news.

But that’s not what the article says, ffs.

The booster jabs that Pfizer are on about are just a 3rd shot of same jab, then they also talk about how they are going to start clinical trials in August of a different jab that will target the variants, but that’s nothing to do with the booster.

Come on mate, just accept you got mixed up, it’s not that hard.

 

[Rammy Blue]

here's the Pfizer statement

It's important to have a vaccine that is specific to the latest variants. That's far more valuable than a booster based on existing vaccine because they just raise antibodies against a virus that is no longer in circulation.

It's not just important to have high antibody titres but to have antibody titres that are diverse and neutralising.

Pfizer and BioNTech have seen encouraging data in the ongoing booster trial of a third dose of the current BNT162b2 vaccine. Initial data from the study demonstrate that a booster dose given 6 months after the second dose has a consistent tolerability profile while eliciting high neutralization titers against the wild type and the Beta variant, which are 5 to 10 times higher than after two primary doses. The companies expect to publish more definitive data soon as well as in a peer-reviewed journal and plan to submit the data to the FDA, EMA and other regulatory authorities in the coming weeks. In addition, data from a recent Nature paper demonstrate that immune sera obtained shortly after dose 2 of the primary two dose series of BNT162b2 have strong neutralization titers against the Delta variant (B.1.617.2 lineage) in laboratory tests. The companies anticipate that a third dose will boost those antibody titers even higher, similar to how the third dose performs for the Beta variant (B.1.351). Pfizer and BioNTech are conducting preclinical and clinical tests to confirm this hypothesis. While Pfizer and BioNTech believe a third dose of BNT162b2 has the potential to preserve the highest levels of protective efficacy against all currently known variants including Delta, the companies are remaining vigilant and are developing an updated version of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the Delta variant. The first batch of the mRNA for the trial has already been manufactured. The Companies anticipate the clinical studies to begin in August, subject to regulatory approvals. As seen in real world data released from the Israel Ministry of Health, vaccine efficacy in preventing both infection and symptomatic disease has declined six months post-vaccination, although efficacy in preventing serious illnesses remains high. Additionally, during this period the Delta variant is becoming the dominant variant in Israel as well as many other countries. These findings are consistent with an ongoing analysis from the Companies’ Phase 3 study. That is why we have said, and we continue to believe that it 2 is likely, based on the totality of the data we have to date, that a third dose may be needed within 6 to 12 months after full vaccination. While protection against severe disease remained high across the full 6 months, a decline in efficacy against symptomatic disease over time and the continued emergence of variants are expected. Based on the totality of the data they have to date, Pfizer and BioNTech believe that a third dose may be beneficial to maintain the highest levels of protection.

Have you been drinking early?