Chelsea (A) - Sat 25 Sep 12:30 | Pre-Match Thread

[hihosilva]

If we go there without two DMs, we will get picked apart IN FRONT OF THE BACK FOUR.

The other place they pick teams apart is with the blind side overload. Their two AMs make cross runs, with the right side attacker moving from right to left, dragging the Left Back inside with him, opening up the entire right side of the danger area around the 18 yard box…and the same thing on the other side. This is how Reese James & Alonso get so many chances.

Their entire game is to overload the back 4 by giving them 5 players to mark (LB, RAM, CF, LAM, RB), with their two “DMs” patrolling the 25-30 yard line for anything that comes back.

Meanwhile their Back 3 have the extra man (or two) to blunt any long ball designed to relieve the pressure they’re putting on the opposition…and it gets fed right back into the DMs to recycle.

For me, the reason City haven’t dint well against them is because Tuchel plays a tweaked Pep formation, with less rotational motion on the field. That gives them strong “boxes” of players all over the field to douse any pressure from the opposition and take back the ball.

When they do lose the ball, if they don’t get it back quickly, they collapse back into a 5-4-1 defensive shell.

In Pep’s system, our 2nd & 3rd attackers (often the RM & LM rather than the wide players in our system) are very rarely seen as defenders when things break down, and thus we rely on our 4-1 to initially defend the box. That’s just not enough people to cover the attacking overloads Chelsea try to impose on their opposition.

I see most people have our midfield as Rodri/Ferna as a DM and then 2 of KDB/Gundo/Bernardo/Foden as our other two midfielders, with 3 of Mahrez/Sterling/Torres/Jesus/Grealish as our attackers.

When losing the ball, does anyone really see 3 or 4 of those midfielders and attackers as putting in a (real) defensive shift?

In short, I believe Chelsea’s formation, and the personnel they employ in it, don’t allow teams to actually attack Chelsea’s biggest weakness, which is their defence!

Their wing backs supplementing their 2 DMs and 2 AMs, plus Lukaku as their striker, gives them a solidity that few teams can resist, or impose on Chelsea with their own personnel.

We need to pin back their FBs, and create one on ones in their back five whenever possible. If we can do that, while containing their fast break, we can win (if we take our chances).

If we cannot use a Back 4 + 1 DM to blunt their 5 man attack, with our other 2 midfielders putting in a defensive shift, we could get overrun in the middle of the park and our final third.

Who plays and our system is going to be interesting.

However, of more importance was seeing how (at Spurs) Tuchel turned his 5-2-2-1 into a 5-3-2 (with one of the 3, in this case Kante, playing the role of the second AM going forward) at half time. In short order, they grabbed hold of the midfield, overrunning and overpowering Spurs.

Watching him ruthlessly institute a Plan B (5-3-1-1) at HT, because his 5-2-2-1 wasn’t imposing itself on Spurs, was both interesting and scary in its effectiveness.

We will have to play significantly better than we did against Soton if we are going to get anything (including a draw) out of them.

Fingers and toes crossed we can and do.

Coming away from there with only 10 points from 18, with PSG (A) in the CL a few days later and Liverpool (A) the following weekend could blow up our PL early on if it turns into 10 from 21 points and a CL loss against a team we beat twice last season.

With that assessment it sounds like we need Tony Pulis as manager to break them down.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

I'm looking fw to this strangely. It's at theirs, they're favourites, we're at a low edge relatively, everyone is expecting us to lose. It's a good chance to reassert ourselves and boost our confidence, or will be a tough game though, no idea which way it will go myself but I think we have a chance.

 

[David Silva #21]

Ederson
Walker Dias Ake :( Cancelo
Fernandinho
Bernardo Gundogan
Foden KDB Grealish

 

[hinchcliffes bulbous conk]

Chelsea don’t concede and since TT has come in they’ve arguably been the most consistent side. Without a killer in the box I think this will be a tough ask, but a moment of brilliance could secure us a point or even better 3. Come on you blues!

 

[ws01]

Gundogan needs to sit this one out - not enough energy or workrate.

KDB and Phil must start.

Jesus has to start on the right.

Dinho at the base.

Raheem should not be getting a run, unless we get real desperate.

 

[Nihilist]

There is no way to win this one ,Chlesea is too good right now , not in the sense that their football is too good but they simply dont concede goals when it matters and they will score when they need to.
If we had most of our main players fit and not injured we would have a chance , sadly with Ake at the back and no Rodri in the midfield I dont see us get much out of this one. Psg and Liverpool are going to be easier , in my opinion .
A draw here would be a great result

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Pep won't do it, but we just need to let them come on to us.

It sort of transpired that way when we won at their place last season.

They are essentially a back seven when sat in.

My biggest concern is the transition against us in midfield and at set-pieces, especially at corners.

 

[Gabriel]

We're on exactly the same points (10) after 5 games as we have been in the previous two seasons. After 6 games, our lowest total under Guardiola has been 11 and highest 18. Better get a point this weekend or it'll be club in crisis...

 

[Agueroooo9320]

Pep won't do it, but we just need to let them come on to us.

It sort of transpired that way when we won at their place last season.

They are essentially a back seven when sat in.

My biggest concern is the transition against us in midfield and at set-pieces, especially at corners.

exactly we need to sacrifice our midfield control and make the game more open. if it is just us having us have the ball, they will easily find a counter.

 

[MossHey71]

was it only me who saw Kyle limping through the last 20 minutes v Saints. I reckon both he and Ilkay will be unavailable for Chelsea

 

[domalino]

I'm looking fw to this strangely. It's at theirs, they're favourites, we're at a low edge relatively, everyone is expecting us to lose. It's a good chance to reassert ourselves and boost our confidence, or will be a tough game though, no idea which way it will go myself but I think we have a chance.

The problem is you know this place is going to go mental when we lose. No one is going to care that we're missing 1/3rd of the squad, or that it's still early days, it's just going to be the world is ending, we've lost the title already etc.

 

[Blue Feather]

I think we'll win

 

[Withnail]

Big test for Pep and the team, fingers crossed Rodders is fit.

Ederson
Walker Dias Ake Cancelo
Rodders KDB Bernardo
Mahrez Foden Grealish

Would take a draw.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

exactly we need to sacrifice our midfield control and make the game more open. if it is just us having us have the ball, they will easily find a counter.

Yep, it wouldn't be difficult to create a 4-5-1, with Sterling at the top.

Basically go like-for-like, stop the overlaps on the wings, make it clear to Grealish and Jesus they must come right back to make it the five.

We don't need control, what we need is the threat of quick transition, that would keep Chelsea honest at the back.

My team would be...

....................EDDIE....................
WALKER....DIAS.....AKE......CANCELO
JESUS.....BERNIE..DE BRUYNE...FODEN...GREALISH
..................STERLING..........

 

[Vialli98]

The two toughest games so far, Liverpool aside, have been Villa at home and Spurs in the first half. Both Villa and Spurs pressed us aggressively. They stopped us from playing our usual game. Of course they both lost 3-0 in the end, so maybe not the best approach, but City are better than those teams and are capable of pressing better and in a more sustained way.

I agree with those who say if you come and try to dominate possession, we have the tools to soak that up and hit you on the counter. I think the best way to beat us at the moment is press into making mistakes in our defensive third.

 

[Tb1981]

The two toughest games so far, Liverpool aside, have been Villa at home and Spurs in the first half. Both Villa and Spurs pressed us aggressively. They stopped us from playing our usual game. Of course they both lost 3-0 in the end, so maybe not the best approach, but City are better than those teams and are capable of pressing better and in a more sustained way.

I agree with those who say if you come and try to dominate possession, we have the tools to soak that up and hit you on the counter. I think the best way to beat us at the moment is press into making mistakes in our defensive third.

The last three games have been very close games so it will probably be moments of magic or mistakes that are the difference

 

[Gumzy97]

Pep won't do it, but we just need to let them come on to us.

It sort of transpired that way when we won at their place last season.

They are essentially a back seven when sat in.

My biggest concern is the transition against us in midfield and at set-pieces, especially at corners.

Grealish is going to be essential.

When they lost to Villa last season Grealish pulled their defence apart they couldn't deal with him. They put two defenders on him but that still didn't do it.I think he was also the reason azpilicueta got sent off

 

[dave_blue12]

With Phil and Kev back I'm feeling confident and expecting to win.

I really don't understand the negativity on here.

 

[SWPISHOME]

The two toughest games so far, Liverpool aside, have been Villa at home and Spurs in the first half. Both Villa and Spurs pressed us aggressively. They stopped us from playing our usual game. Of course they both lost 3-0 in the end, so maybe not the best approach, but City are better than those teams and are capable of pressing better and in a more sustained way.

I agree with those who say if you come and try to dominate possession, we have the tools to soak that up and hit you on the counter. I think the best way to beat us at the moment is press into making mistakes in our defensive third.

Chelsea seem to have a solution for almost every team they play against going back months now. Even if Chelsea aren't playing well they seem to find a way to win and if not then don't get beaten.
Of course I think we can go to Stamford Bridge and beat Chelsea but it's going to be a seriously tough game Chelsea are a well oiled machine.
With Stones and Laporte being out of makes it even tougher.
I'd actually like us to play Chelsea at their own game sit back being compact, Hope for Chelsea to come out and leave spaces.

I fancy Chelsea to edge it. I'd be happy with a point right now.

 

[Agueroooo9320]

Yep, it wouldn't be difficult to create a 4-5-1, with Sterling at the top.

Basically go like-for-like, stop the overlaps on the wings, make it clear to Grealish and Jesus they must come right back to make it the five.

We don't need control, what we need is the threat of quick transition, that would keep Chelsea honest at the back.

My team would be...

....................EDDIE....................
WALKER....DIAS.....AKE......CANCELO
JESUS.....BERNIE..DE BRUYNE...FODEN...GREALISH
..................STERLING..........

same but i will just switch around sterling and Jesus feel like he is more effective wide in a transition game and Jesus will give us a focal point. also ask Foden and Jack to swap often