Keir Starmer

[west didsblue]

Gobby says Tory scum her words, media report it, media give interview where she explains her Rick from the young ones stance, posters of a certain persuasion deflect and use whataboutery. You bizarrely waffle the media don't show both sides which is the exact opposite of what happened here.

The only thing achieved here is she looks like a child. Posters confirm they treat politics like football and are incapable of rational debate and we are all subjected to another bizarre rant from you.

If we want rid of the tories even people like Rayner need to engage their brains more. This country ain't changing anytime soon and neither is the media.

Pretty much sums it up.

She could get as much media attention by calling out individuals within the government as liars, and when asked to explain she should provide irrefutable facts. Calling someone scum (even if they are) is a subjective insult that the recipient and their supporters can get all sanctimonious about which adds nothing to the debate and wins little support from the undecided. Seeing a government minister trying to justify out and out lies is much more damaging to them.

 

[Rascal]

She needs to grow up and be professional.

do you think she should lie?

 

[BobKowalski]

In fairness rascal no one has said she should lie just be a tad more mature in her language. You can have a bigger impact this way. She has made the story about her and not about the people who should be held to account.

People can be passionate without having to use insults. If they can't it says alot about their character.

It does, but we did elect Johnson who speaks carelessly and often in an insulting or racist manner, and we endorsed it with our votes.

If the electorate rewards, rather than punishes then this is what you get.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

do you think she should lie?

She should be articualte and intelligent enough to make a fool out of fools and point out the truth without making a fool out of herself and her party.

Does Pep lie in his interviews every week when he doesn't call United Liverpool Arsenal Spurs UEFA Tebas the press etc. "scum"? No, he's just got class about him and it doesn't even cross his mind to be that pathetic.

 

[hilts]

I thought there was an interesting and illuminating interview with Raynor in the Times.

Angela Rayner: ‘I find it difficult feeling happy’

Angela Rayner is one of the most powerful women at Westminster, the deputy leader of the Labour Party and shadow secretary of state of the future of work and sh

www.thetimes.co.uk

And if you asked a 1000 people to say the first thing that came into their heads when they hear Angela Rayner

Who?(a lot of people)
The scum woman?(quite a few)
I read an article about her in the Times and......(pretty much no one)

Which is kind of my point. We live in a headline making world. You have to be aware of it fella.

By the way if you are setting the line at a nobody Tory making a complete dick of himself,which was reported in the media and he had to make a grovelling apology, then we are in trouble.

I don't think vote Labour cause we don't make bomb jokes will win you much. Being the opposite of Boris may.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

It does, but we did elect Johnson who speaks carelessly and often in an insulting or racist manner, and we endorsed it with our votes.

If the electorate rewards, rather than punishes then this is what you get.

You sound like a Liverpool fan.

 

[west didsblue]

It does, but we did elect Johnson who speaks carelessly and often in an insulting or racist manner, and we endorsed it with our votes.

If the electorate rewards, rather than punishes then this is what you get.

But he does it in a posh accent and uses old fashioned insults, which is enough to impress the uneducated.

 

[BobKowalski]

And if you asked a 1000 people to say the first thing that came into their heads when they hear Angela Rayner

Who?(a lot of people)
The scum woman?(quite a few)
I read an article about her in the Times and......(pretty much no one)

Which is kind of my point. We live in a headline making world. You have to be aware of it fella.

By the way if you are setting the line at a nobody Tory making a complete dick of himself,which was reported in the media and he had to make a grovelling apology, then we are in trouble.

I don't think vote Labour cause we don't make bomb jokes will win you much. Being the opposite of Boris may.

It was an interesting article into her upbringing which shaped her character in the context of the ‘scum’ comment.

I don’t endorse the ‘scum’ comment, it’s unnecessary, but I can see why she used it whereas others would not.

Character is destiny and all that.

 

[Rascal]

In fairness rascal no one has said she should lie just be a tad more mature in her language. You can have a bigger impact this way. She has made the story about her and not about the people who should be held to account.

People can be passionate without having to use insults. If they can't it says alot about their character.

I can understand her frustrations, Johnson gets away with saying a myriad of unacceptable statements, he though is Eton educated and part of the accepted establishment, Raynor is a council estate girl with a back story alien to the accepted establishment. On the estate where she is from it will be perfectly acceptable to call the Tories scum, as it is perfectly acceptable for Johnson to use the language he does in the establishment circles he moves in. Sally Tomlinson who co-authored the book Rule Brittania with Danny Dorling studied the literature Johnson was taught at Eton and the language he uses reflected the education he received. Raynor went to a second rate Stockport comprehensive and and the language she uses reflects her education.

So it does indeed reflect her character and shows she is real, it shows she lives in the same world as many people who also did not go to Eton and learn about piccanninies with watermelon smiles.

 

[Rascal]

She needs to grow up and be professional.

So you want her to lie.

 

[The perfect fumble]

No it isn't. I never said biological sex in human beings was the product of evolution in humans, it is the product of evolution in our ancestors.

You are not only a bigot but you are also dishonest because I've told you before I don't support self-id only and don't automatically assume people identifying as trans actually are. But you still want to talk about Owen Jones and your usual garbage.

I don't have "gender idealogy" and these are stuff I posted above is things I have learnt or come to believe from my own reading not identity politics twitter/tumblr or Owen Jones.

I looked it up to see what "gender idealogy" actually was and all I could find that discussed it in detail were sites that claimed it was a conspiracy theory cynically used for the purpose of smearing, pushing back civil liberties and stoking culture wars.

The frequent accusations of misogynist, this is so tragically ironic for someone who gatecrashed the Sarah Everard thread to post to post your transphobic bigotry.

So this isn't really about women is it?

Like Graham Linehan reacting irrationally to the pulling of a crap episode of "The IT Crowd" it seems it is just about your own narcissism and stubbornness.

More ramblings.

I'm a bigot and a transphobe but your a man of reason with your....

"aggressive predatory lesbian(s)"

Reread this you blithering idiot!

Oh! And let's not forget your....

"trans people (individuals with intersex brain chemistry)"

Fuck me! That is so ludicrous! Even the true zealots gave up with lady brains years ago.

As for...

"just another "cultural marxism"

I see, you're the rational one but I'm a cultural marxist because I believe a woman is an adult human female.

This is a corker!....

"biological sex is only the product of evolution"

Only eh? Well at least you didn't say it was a social construct, how far are we going back then? Got to be pre Swales at least!......




I don't debate with you because I'm a bigot, I don't debate with you because you're a child. You're being led by the nose to spout this incoherent rubbish.

Still, here you go, soothe yourself after all this transphobic hostility with Alex, widening the bandwidth of how to be a woman......




This is males exercising male power over women, I feel genuinely sorry for you that you can't see it.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

So you want her to lie.

Are you saying she isn't grown up and professional and to act as so would be a lie?

 

[BobKowalski]

I can understand her frustrations, Johnson gets away with saying a myriad of unacceptable statements, he though is Eton educated and part of the accepted establishment, Raynor is a council estate girl with a back story alien to the accepted establishment. On the estate where she is from it will be perfectly acceptable to call the Tories scum, as it is perfectly acceptable for Johnson to use the language he does in the establishment circles he moves in. Sally Tomlinson who co-authored the book Rule Brittania with Danny Dorling studied the literature Johnson was taught at Eton and the language he uses reflected the education he received. Raynor went to a second rate Stockport comprehensive and and the language she uses reflects her education.

So it does indeed reflect her character and shows she is real, it shows she lives in the same world as many people who also did not go to Eton and learn about piccanninies with watermelon smiles.

I can understand her frustrations too, and maybe there is some mileage in letting her use language she is familiar with, but as a nation of ‘cap doffers’ we accept and forgive ‘posh’ insults more readily than we do those of Raynor’s background.

The country doesn’t want a woman of Raynor’s background in charge unless she ‘rises above it’ and be seen to do so. Johnson can say what he likes and be a hundred times worse than Raynor, but his background will protect him because we are conditioned to accept it.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

More ramblings.

I'm a bigot and a transphobe but your a man of reason with your....

"aggressive predatory lesbian(s)"

Reread this you blithering idiot!

Oh! And let's not forget your....

"trans people (individuals with intersex brain chemistry)"

Fuck me! That is so ludicrous! Even the true zealots gave up with lady brains years ago.

As for...

"just another "cultural marxism"

I see, you're the rational one but I'm a cultural marxist because I believe a woman is an adult human female.

This is a corker!....

"biological sex is only the product of evolution"

Only eh? Well at least you didn't say it was a social construct, how far are we going back then? Got to be pre Swales at least!

I don't debate with you because I'm a bigot, I don't debate with you because you're a child.

Yes, predatory lesbians in the context of women only spaces like refuges, i. e. female sex offenders or people with an issue with respecting other people's boundaries, or past evidence manipulative behaviour that is counterproductive to place of sanctuary or recovery.

I can remember a case from my previous job involving a young lesbian woman being released from prison and her risk assessment flagged up that she had previously demonstrated predatory/grooming behaviour towards younger teenage girls.

I don't care about the biological sex or gender identity of people if they are dangerous risk to others.

I'm not calling you a cultural Marxist, I'm saying this is the same area of reality as the belief that groups are spreading cultural Marxism. It's a conspiracy theory junk.

Gender ideology

The term "gender ideology" is a snarl word and straw man argument used by the anti-gender movement, that originated in "anti-feminist and anti-trans discourses among right-wing Christians, with the Catholic Church acting as a major nucleating agent."[1][2][3][4] It has since been "adopted by...

rationalwiki.org

 

[Rascal]

Are you saying she isn't grown up and professional and to act as so would be a lie?

No, i am saying she is telling the truth. You would rather she lied.

 

[Rascal]

I can understand her frustrations too, and maybe there is some mileage in letting her use language she is familiar with, but as a nation of ‘cap doffers’ we accept and forgive ‘posh’ insults more readily than we do those of Raynor’s background.

The country doesn’t want a woman of Raynor’s background in charge unless she ‘rises above it’ and be seen to do so. Johnson can say what he likes and be a hundred times worse than Raynor, but his background will protect him because we are conditioned to accept it.

I am different then, because i am not conditioned to accept it, i am from a similar background as Raynor and think she is fucking spot on, the Tories are fucking scum.

I see Johnson as a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, arrogant ****, who is fucking scum and it is fantastic we have a politician prepared to say how it is about him, because it is the truth. He is scum.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I am different then, because i am not conditioned to accept it, i am from a similar background as Raynor and think she is fucking spot on, the Tories are fucking scum.

I see Johnson as a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, arrogant ****, who is fucking scum and it is fantastic we have a politician prepared to say how it is about him, because it is the truth. He is scum.

Bit harsh on scum, that.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

More ramblings.

I'm a bigot and a transphobe but your a man of reason with your....

"aggressive predatory lesbian(s)"

Reread this you blithering idiot!

Oh! And let's not forget your....

"trans people (individuals with intersex brain chemistry)"

Fuck me! That is so ludicrous! Even the true zealots gave up with lady brains years ago.

As for...

"just another "cultural marxism"

I see, you're the rational one but I'm a cultural marxist because I believe a woman is an adult human female.

This is a corker!....

"biological sex is only the product of evolution"

Only eh? Well at least you didn't say it was a social construct, how far are we going back then? Got to be pre Swales at least!......




I don't debate with you because I'm a bigot, I don't debate with you because you're a child. You're being led by the nose to spout this incoherent rubbish.

Still, here you go, soothe yourself after all this transphobic hostility with Alex, widening the bandwidth of how to be a woman......




This is males exercising male power over women, I feel genuinely sorry for you that you can't see it.

Engender blog | F-words: Finn McKay on gender ideology

www.engender.org.uk

There is no “gender ideology” because there is no one LGBTQI+ ideology, lobby or agenda; just as there is no one feminist lobby, agenda or sinister conspiracy. Those against “gender ideology” like to suggest that sexuality and gender studies within academia are part of some plot to attack heterosexual families and force everyone to be gay or trans.

Yeah, I have already told you that I don't regard that man as trans and didn't use female pronouns for him.

I mean attention seeking Alex hasn't even appeared in the news in recent years but let's pretend that doesn't mean anything.

Go ahead knock yourself out, get back on the westworld host character loop.

Perhaps you could have a change of storyline, bathroom body inspector or aggressively handing out leaflets to school children like Piers Corbyn?

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I am different then, because i am not conditioned to accept it, i am from a similar background as Raynor and think she is fucking spot on, the Tories are fucking scum.

I see Johnson as a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, arrogant ****, who is fucking scum and it is fantastic we have a politician prepared to say how it is about him, because it is the truth. He is scum.

And this is why people switch off from politics.

It's why the biggest political party in Britain is the Abstain Party. 15.5m regsitered voters (never mind the ones who aren't registered) didn't bother voting in the 2019 General Election and it's mainly because we have poor MPs in the main parties who come out with petty juvenile language and a lot of moaning, with voters who vote for the main parties who also come out with petty juvenile language and a lot of moaning, who turn people off from politics.

Policies are neither here nor there for the majority of people because their lives are barely any different no matter who is in power. It's the childish behaviour, childish language, and constant moaning that is the main contributor to people turning their backs. It's why i only dip in-and-out of the Politics Forum from time-to-time depsite being interested in Politics - the place is just full of posters who do nothing but name call and moan.

People may well see Johnson as a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, arrogant ****, who is fucking scum... they may well be right... but that has nothing to do with politics. People don't want to hear this tribal bluster from voters and certainly not from MPs.

I keep referring to Pep (and politics should be more fucking mature than bloody football is); but you don't get Pep coming out saying "Javier Tebas is a racist jealous arrogant scumbag".

Labour is never going to get back into power until they entice people away from the Abstain Party. And petty little jibes are going to win nobody over. People from afar will look on and think "Politicains and core voters still think they're in ths school playground, i see. I think my stance to stay well clear of them all is still correct! Let the children who vote for the children who run the country prattle away with their nonsense while the adults get on with their lives away from politics!"

 

[bluethrunthru]

Angela Rayner called them "a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile, banana republic, nasty, Etonians” - they got angry over the word scum which implies they accept the other accusations as truths.