10 | Jack Grealish - 2021/22 Performances

[youngbob]

92 clueless fuckers and liars, me included, voted for Cancelo as MOTM after his performance last night.

It's a close call at the moment and plenty of time for Jack to catch-up.

He's got 1 vote so far......

Club Brugge CL (H) | Man of the Match

Bernardo Simply brilliant in every department.

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

That's my point. They played just as well as each other overall but because other players buried Cancelo's passes and not Grealish's, it makes it seem as though Cancelo had a better game when he didn't.

 

[youngbob]

The pass for Cancelo’s chance was obvious. If he’d have not played it, he wouldn’t be a footballer.

He did create 2 decent chances, but the ball he played to Cancelo or similar was on more than once for a few different players. He didn’t play it. He delayed as he always does.

I have zero issue with Grealish, he’s working hard & trying all he can. But so far, he seems to lack the instincts we need from a wide forward.
He’s never in the right spot for the type of goals that Sane, Sterling & Mahrez score.

He’s either never a left sided forward, or to me a total waste of money. He’s not a patch on Foden, Gundogan, De Bruyne or Bernardo centrally.

Sterling has been way off form and has never played well in the derby, but I’d still rather see him given Grealish’s minutes.

As much as every fan wants him to succeed, his direct goal involvements are simply no where near good enough for the minutes he’s getting.

People keep wanting to bemoan the lack of a striker, but we didn’t have one last year either. Guess what, we still were the best side in the World.
The problem is. Too many players aren’t performing or rather impacting games anywhere near enough. Grealish is the most guilty of this. Sterling is considered to be having a horrible season. Yet has been just as productive.

Grealish rightly gets more time as he’s adapting.

I don't know why, because this all well argued, but I just don't agree with any of this really.

If Cancelo had buried Grealish's through ball in the first half, which he should have, then Grealish would have an assist against his name. If Mahrez had buried the chance that Grealish gifted to him in the second half, which he should have, then that's two assists and suddenly it looks like Grealish has had a productive night. If even one of those chances had gone in, that'd probably be enough for people to give him an average rating of about a 7/10 and maybe a couple more votes in the MOTM thread. Grealish himself wouldn't have performed any differently, but the reception of his performance would be much better. So what you've got now is a situation where Grealish is being criticised because other players have failed to do the job required of them. Grealish did his job by putting the ball on a plate for his teammates but because they don't bury easy chances it's Grealish that gets criticised for not contributing enough. I'm not saying Grealish set the world alight last night but he was hardly the worst player on the pitch (as the BBC's match ratings seem to wrongly indicate he was).

Flip the scenario. Say Mahrez heads Cancelo's cross wide, or say Jesus' excellent finish from a difficult angle gets tipped round the post. Say Foden skies his tap-in like we've seen players do over the years. You'd have a lot more people criticising how poor Cancelo was defensively last night and probably picking up on how many times Brugge got in down his side because he wasn't bothering to track back. Cancelo would have played to exactly the same standard but because two or three other players didn't do their jobs, he'd have been criticised? But Mahrez and Jesus did score, so he walks away with a higher estimation in the supporters' eyes and tonnes of YouTube commenters going on about how brilliant he was. Cancelo did play well last night, but so did Grealish - they both created good chances and they both made mistakes. One player is receiving tonnes of plaudits today, the other is getting more and more criticism from people who (as I said) are just lying about what he gives to our team.

The only difference between their performances last night was that Cancelo's creativity was rewarded with good finishing where Grealish's creativity was punished by bad finishing from other players.

 

[schfc6]

I don't know why, because this all well argued, but I just don't agree with any of this really.

If Cancelo had buried Grealish's through ball in the first half, which he should have, then Grealish would have an assist against his name. If Mahrez had buried the chance that Grealish gifted to him in the second half, which he should have, then that's two assists and suddenly it looks like Grealish has had a productive night. If even one of those chances had gone in, that'd probably be enough for people to give him an average rating of about a 7/10 and maybe a couple more votes in the MOTM thread. Grealish himself wouldn't have performed any differently, but the reception of his performance would be much better. So what you've got now is a situation where Grealish is being criticised because other players have failed to do the job required of them. Grealish did his job by putting the ball on a plate for his teammates but because they don't bury easy chances it's Grealish that gets criticised for not contributing enough. I'm not saying Grealish set the world alight last night but he was hardly the worst player on the pitch (as the BBC's match ratings seem to wrongly indicate he was).

Flip the scenario. Say Mahrez heads Cancelo's cross wide, or say Jesus' excellent finish from a difficult angle gets tipped round the post. Say Foden skies his tap-in like we've seen players do over the years. You'd have a lot more people criticising how poor Cancelo was defensively last night and probably picking up on how many times Brugge got in down his side because he wasn't bothering to track back. Cancelo would have played to exactly the same standard but because two or three other players didn't do their jobs, he'd have been criticised? But Mahrez and Jesus did score, so he walks away with a higher estimation in the supporters' eyes and tonnes of YouTube commenters going on about how brilliant he was. Cancelo did play well last night, but so did Grealish - they both created good chances and they both made mistakes. One player is receiving tonnes of plaudits today, the other is getting more and more criticism from people who (as I said) are just lying about what he gives to our team.

The only difference between their performances last night was that Cancelo's creativity was rewarded with good finishing where Grealish's creativity was punished by bad finishing from other players.

All of that is subjective. And you’re right, on another day he could have had two assists, but likewise they’ll be games where he plays a simple two yard pass that someone buries from 30 yards and he’s credited with an assist. Every other player will suffer the same. You could easily argue that just before the Mahrez header, Mahrez(i think) rolled one right across the 6 yard box. Grealish should have been there to tap it in, he was not. And so far he never has been and doesn’t look like learning.

However. this isn’t an isolated game. We’re now in november, CL qualifiers all but done, and over a quarter of the league campaign over. And he’s 2 goals to his name and one was an accident. He’s got a couple of assists to his name. That, however you want to spin it, simply isn’t good enough. Rashford is garbage, yet plays the exact same position and has already scored more in about a month. Normally by his stage of a season, our forwards are in double figures for G&A’s.

Mahrez, Jesus & Foden are way ahead of him, they’ve all played far less minutes.

So far, and he’s got the ability to improve but he seems far too predictable, slows everything up, sees the pass too late. He’s far too reactionary rather than proactive.

That’s not always a fault or issue, Walker is just about the most reactionary player i’ve ever seen. He provides almost no assists or goals. But he’s learnt that off the ball he can create space for others. And he has the physical prowess to be reactionary. He’s an excellent defender.

Jack will have to change, or a system change. Or he’ll be gone.

 

[Fordyboy46]

He needs to be brought off that left hand side and in to the middle. We're just getting the same from him week in week out and it's very poor uninspiring stuff. I've not seen him take a defender on yet so that must be a clue to Pep that it's not working for him there.
Still early days for him but he's not getting the fans on their feet yet

 

[Fordyboy46]

Doesn't seem suited to play left wing for us. Foden and Sterling make more sense in that position with our style. He's been pretty blunt there overall, with many of his best moments coming in a much deeper position like the pass to Cancelo.

Problem is that De Bruyne, Bernardo and Gundogan all get in as midfielders ahead of Jack on merit. So until Bernardo leaves (unless he changes his mind) or Gundogan's legs start to go in a few years, I'm not really sure what we do with Grealish.

That's an occupational hazard of joining one of the best clubs in the world.

We just didn't need him last summer mate, a striker, left back, and possibly a def mid were more of a concern. Strange signing if you ask me

 

[ninjamonkey]

I don't know why, because this all well argued, but I just don't agree with any of this really.

If Cancelo had buried Grealish's through ball in the first half, which he should have, then Grealish would have an assist against his name. If Mahrez had buried the chance that Grealish gifted to him in the second half, which he should have, then that's two assists and suddenly it looks like Grealish has had a productive night. If even one of those chances had gone in, that'd probably be enough for people to give him an average rating of about a 7/10 and maybe a couple more votes in the MOTM thread. Grealish himself wouldn't have performed any differently, but the reception of his performance would be much better. So what you've got now is a situation where Grealish is being criticised because other players have failed to do the job required of them. Grealish did his job by putting the ball on a plate for his teammates but because they don't bury easy chances it's Grealish that gets criticised for not contributing enough. I'm not saying Grealish set the world alight last night but he was hardly the worst player on the pitch (as the BBC's match ratings seem to wrongly indicate he was).

Flip the scenario. Say Mahrez heads Cancelo's cross wide, or say Jesus' excellent finish from a difficult angle gets tipped round the post. Say Foden skies his tap-in like we've seen players do over the years. You'd have a lot more people criticising how poor Cancelo was defensively last night and probably picking up on how many times Brugge got in down his side because he wasn't bothering to track back. Cancelo would have played to exactly the same standard but because two or three other players didn't do their jobs, he'd have been criticised? But Mahrez and Jesus did score, so he walks away with a higher estimation in the supporters' eyes and tonnes of YouTube commenters going on about how brilliant he was. Cancelo did play well last night, but so did Grealish - they both created good chances and they both made mistakes. One player is receiving tonnes of plaudits today, the other is getting more and more criticism from people who (as I said) are just lying about what he gives to our team.

The only difference between their performances last night was that Cancelo's creativity was rewarded with good finishing where Grealish's creativity was punished by bad finishing from other players.

If he had got 2 assists last night, sure there would be more people offering praise but it wouldn't make it worthy praise. As you say, 2 assists or no assists doesn't change how he performed overall and two standard passes is not anywhere near enough of a contribution for the amount of time and ball he is seeing.

Every player on the pitch plays those kind of passes every game, they're bog standard good passes you're expected to make if you play for City, you're simply not in the squad if you can't and playing them doesn't separate you from the rest, it would be like praising Ederson for saving a powerless shot straight down his throat from 35 yards, he did what was required and did it well but its not a noteworthy contribution.

I could name 3 instances to Grealish's 2 where mahrez could have had an assist last night despite mahrez having a quiet game eho saw considerably less of the ball. Literally nobody is offering praise to him for those potential assists though in his thread and that's even ignoring the fact he scored the crucial second goal too because whilst they were decent passes, every player on the pitch is expected to do that and doing so doesn't make for a great contribution to the side.

 

[youngbob]

All of that is subjective. And you’re right, on another day he could have had two assists, but likewise they’ll be games where he plays a simple two yard pass that someone buries from 30 yards and he’s credited with an assist. Every other player will suffer the same. You could easily argue that just before the Mahrez header, Mahrez(i think) rolled one right across the 6 yard box. Grealish should have been there to tap it in, he was not. And so far he never has been and doesn’t look like learning.

However. this isn’t an isolated game. We’re now in november, CL qualifiers all but done, and over a quarter of the league campaign over. And he’s 2 goals to his name and one was an accident. He’s got a couple of assists to his name. That, however you want to spin it, simply isn’t good enough. Rashford is garbage, yet plays the exact same position and has already scored more in about a month. Normally by his stage of a season, our forwards are in double figures for G&A’s.

Mahrez, Jesus & Foden are way ahead of him, they’ve all played far less minutes.

So far, and he’s got the ability to improve but he seems far too predictable, slows everything up, sees the pass too late. He’s far too reactionary rather than proactive.

That’s not always a fault or issue, Walker is just about the most reactionary player i’ve ever seen. He provides almost no assists or goals. But he’s learnt that off the ball he can create space for others. And he has the physical prowess to be reactionary. He’s an excellent defender.

Jack will have to change, or a system change. Or he’ll be gone.

But again I just... don't think any of this is true? The more detailed stats that go beyond G/A say he is contributing and that he's contributing a lot compared to other players. I've posted loads of links in thread you can find and read through at your leisure. He's creating more chances than any other City player, in fact I think Bruno Fernandes is the only midfielder outperforming him in this respect.

I think he needs to be moved into the middle to be properly unlocked and I expect that's what will happen eventually, but what I see with my eyes and what the stats say... none of it marries up with this idea that he's underperforming? He's on to finish the season with about 7/8 goals and 12/13 assists. That's about an average David Silva season and better than any season he's had for Villa so far.

I'm also trying to think of an attacking midfielder we've signed under Pep that's hit the ground running. Sane, Bernardo, Gundogan, Mahrez, none of them really got off to a fast start and Bernardo and Sane took an entire season to find their place in the team. The only one who did, come to think of it, was maybe Nolito? And we all saw how that ended up within six months after a really good start.

I think Grealish is performing at a 7/10 level, maybe 7.5/10 and is doing pretty well. He'll get better when he gets played where he was signed to play, and we know from these last 14/15 games that he's always an option on the left if things get desperate. You could say that the £100m price tag demands more but that's not really his fault, it's just what Villa asked for and what we agreed to pay.

He should be judged on whether he makes sense in our team and the actual stats say he does.

 

[MarsLlama]

I'm also trying to think of an attacking midfielder we've signed under Pep that's hit the ground running. Sane, Bernardo, Gundogan, Mahrez, none of them really got off to a fast start and Bernardo and Sane took an entire season to find their place in the team.

This is a valid point that many people have made, but the difference is that none of those guys came in and instantly started loads of games. In all four cases we had other players who could start while they found their feet.

 

[youngbob]

If he had got 2 assists last night, sure there would be more people offering praise but it wouldn't make it worthy praise. As you say, 2 assists or no assists doesn't change how he performed overall and two standard passes is not anywhere near enough of a contribution for the amount of time and ball he is seeing.

Every player on the pitch plays those kind of passes every game, they're bog standard good passes you're expected to make if you play for City, you're simply not in the squad if you can't and playing them doesn't separate you from the rest, it would be like praising Ederson for saving a powerless shot straight down his throat from 35 yards, he did what was required and did it well but its not a noteworthy contribution.

I could name 3 instances to Grealish's 2 where mahrez could have had an assist last night despite mahrez having a quiet game eho saw considerably less of the ball. Literally nobody is offering praise to him for those potential assists though in his thread and that's even ignoring the fact he scored the crucial second goal too because whilst they were decent passes, every player on the pitch is expected to do that and doing so doesn't make for a great contribution to the side.

Yeah honestly Mahrez is another player whose massive contributions to our team are overlooked by people who decided to call him "FFS" and couldn't give up the gag.

 

[youngbob]

This is a valid point that many people have made, but the difference is that none of those guys came in and instantly started loads of games. In all four cases we had other players who could start while they found their feet.

I don't think Grealish would have started anywhere near as many games as he has, especially not on the left, if De Bruyne and Gundogan had been fit.

 

[Phil1]

We just didn't need him last summer mate, a striker, left back, and possibly a def mid were more of a concern. Strange signing if you ask me

You got Ronaldo so don’t know why you’re upset..

 

[Agueroooo9320]

If he had got 2 assists last night, sure there would be more people offering praise but it wouldn't make it worthy praise. As you say, 2 assists or no assists doesn't change how he performed overall and two standard passes is not anywhere near enough of a contribution for the amount of time and ball he is seeing.

Every player on the pitch plays those kind of passes every game, they're bog standard good passes you're expected to make if you play for City, you're simply not in the squad if you can't and playing them doesn't separate you from the rest, it would be like praising Ederson for saving a powerless shot straight down his throat from 35 yards, he did what was required and did it well but its not a noteworthy contribution.

I could name 3 instances to Grealish's 2 where mahrez could have had an assist last night despite mahrez having a quiet game eho saw considerably less of the ball. Literally nobody is offering praise to him for those potential assists though in his thread and that's even ignoring the fact he scored the crucial second goal too because whilst they were decent passes, every player on the pitch is expected to do that and doing so doesn't make for a great contribution to the side.

sorry I don't take anyone who says those two passes were easy as a serious person having a serious understanding of the game. go back and what those passes on rewind to see how difficult those were to execute perfectly to get a clear chance at goal.

 

[Agueroooo9320]

But again I just... don't think any of this is true? The more detailed stats that go beyond G/A say he is contributing and that he's contributing a lot compared to other players. I've posted loads of links in thread you can find and read through at your leisure. He's creating more chances than any other City player, in fact I think Bruno Fernandes is the only midfielder outperforming him in this respect.

I think he needs to be moved into the middle to be properly unlocked and I expect that's what will happen eventually, but what I see with my eyes and what the stats say... none of it marries up with this idea that he's underperforming? He's on to finish the season with about 7/8 goals and 12/13 assists. That's about an average David Silva season and better than any season he's had for Villa so far.

I'm also trying to think of an attacking midfielder we've signed under Pep that's hit the ground running. Sane, Bernardo, Gundogan, Mahrez, none of them really got off to a fast start and Bernardo and Sane took an entire season to find their place in the team. The only one who did, come to think of it, was maybe Nolito? And we all saw how that ended up within six months after a really good start.

I think Grealish is performing at a 7/10 level, maybe 7.5/10 and is doing pretty well. He'll get better when he gets played where he was signed to play, and we know from these last 14/15 games that he's always an option on the left if things get desperate. You could say that the £100m price tag demands more but that's not really his fault, it's just what Villa asked for and what we agreed to pay.

He should be judged on whether he makes sense in our team and the actual stats say he does.

finally someone who sees the facts as it is without any agenda. well argued I couldn't have said it better

 

[schfc6]

But again I just... don't think any of this is true? The more detailed stats that go beyond G/A say he is contributing and that he's contributing a lot compared to other players. I've posted loads of links in thread you can find and read through at your leisure. He's creating more chances than any other City player, in fact I think Bruno Fernandes is the only midfielder outperforming him in this respect.

I think he needs to be moved into the middle to be properly unlocked and I expect that's what will happen eventually, but what I see with my eyes and what the stats say... none of it marries up with this idea that he's underperforming? He's on to finish the season with about 7/8 goals and 12/13 assists. That's about an average David Silva season and better than any season he's had for Villa so far.

I'm also trying to think of an attacking midfielder we've signed under Pep that's hit the ground running. Sane, Bernardo, Gundogan, Mahrez, none of them really got off to a fast start and Bernardo and Sane took an entire season to find their place in the team. The only one who did, come to think of it, was maybe Nolito? And we all saw how that ended up within six months after a really good start.

I think Grealish is performing at a 7/10 level, maybe 7.5/10 and is doing pretty well. He'll get better when he gets played where he was signed to play, and we know from these last 14/15 games that he's always an option on the left. You could say that the £100m price tag demands more but that's not really his fault, it's just what Villa asked for and what we agreed to pay.

He should be judged on whether he makes sense in our team and the actual stats say he does.

I think this where we’re differing. Yes, you can post all the stats you like about the pass before the pass and key passes. But that’s not his job. He’s one of three attacking players. Comparing his stats to David Silva is utterly pointless, David Silva didn’t play forward left, he was an 8 the entire time under Pep.
Pep has played 1 striker or no strikers his entire time at City. So, that means you need productivity from your forwards.
Grealish, isn’t playing as an 8, or advanced midfielder, he’s playing as a left sided forward. That’s the same position Villa & Henry took up for Barca to put it into context. Mane/Salah take at Liverpool.

Mahrez, has doubled Grealish’s G&A in no where near the same minutes. That’s what he’s there for.

Be painfully honest with yourself, when we were labouring at home to Palace or the Saints did you really feel Grealish would directly influence game? Score a winner, equaliser out of nothing?

He isn’t David Silva, he never will be. To compare him to Silva to me is just daft. They’re not even remotely similar and play in different positions.

He’s never played anywhere as a central
midfielder, he’s played nearly all his minutes in his favour position, he isn’t influencing games.
His woeful displays as a false 9 shows he’s not on the same level as some of our players tactically or technically.
That’s fine, Sterling isn’t, Mahrez isn’t. But they regularly turn in 25/30 goals assists a season. Mahrez is on 10 so far, he’s widely been considered poor this season and had no where near Grealish’s minutes.

 

[Phil1]

He’s just a great footballer and Pep loves a great footballer.
He’ll find his position eventually.

 

[schfc6]

sorry I don't take anyone who says those two passes were easy as a serious person having a serious understanding of the game. go back and what those passes on rewind to see how difficult those were to execute perfectly to get a clear chance at goal.

The one for Cancelo’s chance isn’t only easy it’s painfully obvious. If it wasn’t played by a decent Sunday league player you’d ask questions.
It was a straight pass through the lines to a second man run. If you think that’s brilliant, it’s you that doesn’t understand football.

 

[Fiftyyearsandcounting]

I don't know why, because this all well argued, but I just don't agree with any of this really.

If Cancelo had buried Grealish's through ball in the first half, which he should have, then Grealish would have an assist against his name. If Mahrez had buried the chance that Grealish gifted to him in the second half, which he should have, then that's two assists and suddenly it looks like Grealish has had a productive night. If even one of those chances had gone in, that'd probably be enough for people to give him an average rating of about a 7/10 and maybe a couple more votes in the MOTM thread. Grealish himself wouldn't have performed any differently, but the reception of his performance would be much better. So what you've got now is a situation where Grealish is being criticised because other players have failed to do the job required of them. Grealish did his job by putting the ball on a plate for his teammates but because they don't bury easy chances it's Grealish that gets criticised for not contributing enough. I'm not saying Grealish set the world alight last night but he was hardly the worst player on the pitch (as the BBC's match ratings seem to wrongly indicate he was).

Flip the scenario. Say Mahrez heads Cancelo's cross wide, or say Jesus' excellent finish from a difficult angle gets tipped round the post. Say Foden skies his tap-in like we've seen players do over the years. You'd have a lot more people criticising how poor Cancelo was defensively last night and probably picking up on how many times Brugge got in down his side because he wasn't bothering to track back. Cancelo would have played to exactly the same standard but because two or three other players didn't do their jobs, he'd have been criticised? But Mahrez and Jesus did score, so he walks away with a higher estimation in the supporters' eyes and tonnes of YouTube commenters going on about how brilliant he was. Cancelo did play well last night, but so did Grealish - they both created good chances and they both made mistakes. One player is receiving tonnes of plaudits today, the other is getting more and more criticism from people who (as I said) are just lying about what he gives to our team.

The only difference between their performances last night was that Cancelo's creativity was rewarded with good finishing where Grealish's creativity was punished by bad finishing from other players.

This is why I keep banging on about the "myth" of assists.
A 5 yard sideways pass. Striker scores = assist.
A 30 yard maizey run past 3 defenders, great slicing pass. Striker sky it = No assist.

 

[ninjamonkey]

sorry I don't take anyone who says those two passes were easy as a serious person having a serious understanding of the game. go back and what those passes on rewind to see how difficult those were to execute perfectly to get a clear chance at goal.

I 100% stand by what I said, they were perfectly executed passes I agree but they wasn't anything special, at the risk of repeating myself, I would expect every single player wearing a city kit to be able to play those passes consistently not least a creative attacking player. I gave appropriate credit for a good pass, I took issue with you and a few others who are seemingly of the belief those 2 standard passes constitutes a good contribution during the game.

We were having this discussion yesterday until I noticed you went quiet and didn't offer a reply when I directly questioned your belief that Bernardo did nothing all game and cancelo and jesus were two of the worst players in the pitch against Palace. Frankly, I don't think i want anything I say to be agreed with by somebody with those kind of views of the game. Did you decide on your stance regarding Gundogans assist?

 

[schfc6]

finally someone who sees the facts as it is without any agenda. well argued I couldn't have said it better

I have zero agenda and hope he thrives. But to compare him to David Silva is frankly a ludicrous argument. They play in different positions in the exact same system under the same manager..

 

[BlueTG]

He’s just a great footballer and Pep loves a great footballer.
He’ll find his position eventually.

9 years into his career, I’d hope he’d know where his best position is.

An extended period of time scouting him and pursuing him for a British transfer record fee, I’d expect our management to know where his best position in.

£100m and an attacking position in what is supposed to be one of the best forward thinking teams, ‘eventually’ finding his best position isn’t where we should be.