Coronavirus (2021) thread

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SWP's back said:
This line still has me scratching my head. How do you think you’d be risking your health?
Click to expand...

Sorry forgot to add.

The day after my second jab I was experiencing what felt like heart palpitations and felt like I was having panic attacks.

Obviously, that could be anything causing that but I have never experienced anything like that before in my life so I'm putting it down to a reaction of some kind.
 
twosips said:
Not going to lie, I personally feel a bit dispirited today reading about the vaccine passports including the third jab. I'm double-vaccinated, but I'm a little hesitant towards the third one for health reasons. Anyone who's read my posts in here knows I'm very pro-vaccine. I'm double-vaccinated, got mine as early as I could, and even helped others got their jabs too. I'm a tad nervous though about this third one however for the following reason. Frustratingly I've had on and off chest problems since my jabs. I even had a sore arm and leg for about two months after my first. I've been fobbed off by GPs absolutely loads and they've never got to the bottom of what is causing my chest problems. Just told me to come back if it got any worse. It was very, very uncomfortable at one point, to the extent that I went to the hospital. They did a blood test and x-ray and said things looked fine. They said they weren't sure what it was and just once again said to come back if it got worse after leaving me for ten hours in the waiting room until 6am...

It hung around a bit. I've spoken to some family health professionals and the only real reliable, accurate way to test for myocarditis/heart imflammation it seems is an echocardiagram or even a biopsy. There are plenty of good ways to indicate it, but nothing as reliable as those two as mild cases can easily be missed by other methods. Naturally given the state of the health care system currently there is zero chance i'm getting that done any time soon so it's sorta a great unknown. I've just got zero idea what is wrong with me, with GPs reluctant to do anything other than telling me to rest or try some gastro tablets.

It has slightly faded with time, admittedly, and I've been so busy with getting married and moving home that I've just not had time to chase GPs etc. They're exceptionally hard to get hold of at my local practice and they just won't see you in person either. It does however mildly flare up every now and then, like it did a couple of weeks ago. It concerns me, naturally. I'm recently married, bought a house and want to start a family with my wife. I find myself thinking 'what if im one of the unlucky ones who got a mild case of myocarditis?'. I'm a bloke in my mid 30s, which is a higher risk demographic for that side effect. I understand it's rare, but not so insanely rare that it's not worth considering. It could of course not be that, but of course it does concern me a bit, and given no doctors or GPs have ever gotten to the bottom of what's causing it, I'm a little hesitant. I don't think that's really unreasonable either?

I know most of you will just tell me to go and get jabbed anyway, because why wouldn't you? I'm a stranger really, so I guess it makes no difference to any of your lives...maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. Still, not knowing what has caused my chest pains, with it coming on post jab, has made me want to just hang about a bit to make sure whatever is causing the pains has a chance to actually fuck off. I know all this reads and sounds like anxiety. I can only assure you it isn't. Life has genuinely been good over the past few months and i've really, really enjoyed the normality of it all. It feels very physiological and really isolated in the centre of my chest. It's worse when I lie down for example. I can't say i've been worried about anything overtly for some time now, so anxiety doesn't really add up in this situation.

Personally I'm not too concerned about Omicron, and I think that's not exactly without reason either given all we know about it so far. I can't help but feel that I want to just wait some time for my third jab. I don't know if that's wise or not, but it doesn't feel unwise either. It is a right sinker to know that the passport scheme would sorta look to exclude me if I waited around though...it feels like a punch to the gut. Torn between worrying about my own personal health but also not wanting to be excluded from all of this. Anyway, just venting a bit here. Would be curious to wonder what others would do in my situation.
Click to expand...
Personally I think the majority should have the booster. In your case however I wouldn't and you shouldn't feel guilty about it. It's the selfish arseholes that are a problem.

This is what I would do but I'm not a doctor. It's seems you are more towards not having it so don't worry about it.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
The evidence on Omicron coming out of South Africa continues to look encouraging.

The head of the South African Medical Association has just said the variant still seems to be causing milder symptoms than the previously dominant Delta virus.

Dr Angelique Coetzee told the Science and Technology Committee that even hospitalised patients needed care for half as long – and were less likely to need oxygen.
Click to expand...

I watched that while working. She was very positive. The thing that stood out most to me was that the politicians on the committee behaved like adults and were polite to each other. It was very odd.
 
Last edited:
On the severity of omicron thing, an attempt to explain why it will probably seem less severe without actually being less severe. Model figures, not real ones.

Currently, if there are 100 hospitalizations, that comes from 10,000 reported infections (1% hit rate for severe disease). Assume 50:50 vaxxed: unvaxxed.

90% of people are vaxxed, so those 50 vaxxed hospitalizations are from 9,000 reported cases (0.5% hit rate), whereas the 50 unvaxxed comes from just 1,000 (5% hit rate).

Now, omicron comes along. It transmits much faster, but the reason for that is that it infects vaxxed people as well as unvaxxed. But assume the protection against hospitalisation from vaccination is the same.

So, let's say we get 40,000 more infections (4x more transmissible), but all of the reason for that increase is that they've been vaxxed and would previously have been completely protected. Those additional 40,000 still have good protection against severe disease (same 0.5% hit rate as before) so we only get a further 200 hospitalizations.

So the total now is 50,000 cases, 300 hospitalizations. 0.6% hit rate.

Voilà. The severity appears reduced from 1% hospitalisation to 0.6%, even though the virus is as severe as ever in any given case.

Because the proportion of vaxxed cases is much higher.

No idea if this makes any sense to anyone else, but it does to me.

And of course, it's not as simple as this as immunity is more complex than just "vaxxed or unvaxxed". But hopefully it explains why some people are saying it's less severe, whilst others saying no evidence for change. Both can be right, depending on exactly what they mean.
 
twosips said:
Not going to lie, I personally feel a bit dispirited today reading about the vaccine passports including the third jab. I'm double-vaccinated, but I'm a little hesitant towards the third one for health reasons. Anyone who's read my posts in here knows I'm very pro-vaccine. I'm double-vaccinated, got mine as early as I could, and even helped others got their jabs too. I'm a tad nervous though about this third one however for the following reason. Frustratingly I've had on and off chest problems since my jabs. I even had a sore arm and leg for about two months after my first. I've been fobbed off by GPs absolutely loads and they've never got to the bottom of what is causing my chest problems. Just told me to come back if it got any worse. It was very, very uncomfortable at one point, to the extent that I went to the hospital. They did a blood test and x-ray and said things looked fine. They said they weren't sure what it was and just once again said to come back if it got worse after leaving me for ten hours in the waiting room until 6am...

It hung around a bit. I've spoken to some family health professionals and the only real reliable, accurate way to test for myocarditis/heart imflammation it seems is an echocardiagram or even a biopsy. There are plenty of good ways to indicate it, but nothing as reliable as those two as mild cases can easily be missed by other methods. Naturally given the state of the health care system currently there is zero chance i'm getting that done any time soon so it's sorta a great unknown. I've just got zero idea what is wrong with me, with GPs reluctant to do anything other than telling me to rest or try some gastro tablets.

It has slightly faded with time, admittedly, and I've been so busy with getting married and moving home that I've just not had time to chase GPs etc. They're exceptionally hard to get hold of at my local practice and they just won't see you in person either. It does however mildly flare up every now and then, like it did a couple of weeks ago. It concerns me, naturally. I'm recently married, bought a house and want to start a family with my wife. I find myself thinking 'what if im one of the unlucky ones who got a mild case of myocarditis?'. I'm a bloke in my mid 30s, which is a higher risk demographic for that side effect. I understand it's rare, but not so insanely rare that it's not worth considering. It could of course not be that, but of course it does concern me a bit, and given no doctors or GPs have ever gotten to the bottom of what's causing it, I'm a little hesitant. I don't think that's really unreasonable either?

I know most of you will just tell me to go and get jabbed anyway, because why wouldn't you? I'm a stranger really, so I guess it makes no difference to any of your lives...maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. Still, not knowing what has caused my chest pains, with it coming on post jab, has made me want to just hang about a bit to make sure whatever is causing the pains has a chance to actually fuck off. I know all this reads and sounds like anxiety. I can only assure you it isn't. Life has genuinely been good over the past few months and i've really, really enjoyed the normality of it all. It feels very physiological and really isolated in the centre of my chest. It's worse when I lie down for example. I can't say i've been worried about anything overtly for some time now, so anxiety doesn't really add up in this situation.

Personally I'm not too concerned about Omicron, and I think that's not exactly without reason either given all we know about it so far. I can't help but feel that I want to just wait some time for my third jab. I don't know if that's wise or not, but it doesn't feel unwise either. It is a right sinker to know that the passport scheme would sorta look to exclude me if I waited around though...it feels like a punch to the gut. Torn between worrying about my own personal health but also not wanting to be excluded from all of this. Anyway, just venting a bit here. Would be curious to wonder what others would do in my situation.
Click to expand...
If you die you die. It's your time. Not a lot you can do about it. So the best thing Is to booster away and then relax.

Oh...and insurance.

Plenty of insurance.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
On the severity of omicron thing, an attempt to explain why it will probably seem less severe without actually being less severe. Model figures, not real ones.

Currently, if there are 100 hospitalizations, that comes from 10,000 reported infections (1% hit rate for severe disease). Assume 50:50 vaxxed: unvaxxed.

90% of people are vaxxed, so those 50 vaxxed hospitalizations are from 9,000 reported cases (0.5% hit rate), whereas the 50 unvaxxed comes from just 1,000 (5% hit rate).

Now, omicron comes along. It transmits much faster, but the reason for that is that it infects vaxxed people as well as unvaxxed. But assume the protection against hospitalisation from vaccination is the same.

So, let's say we get 40,000 more infections (4x more transmissible), but all of the reason for that increase is that they've been vaxxed and would previously have been completely protected. Those additional 40,000 still have good protection against severe disease (same 0.5% hit rate as before) so we only get a further 200 hospitalizations.

So the total now is 50,000 cases, 300 hospitalizations. 0.6% hit rate.

Voilà. The severity appears reduced from 1% hospitalisation to 0.6%, even though the virus is as severe as ever in any given case.

Because the proportion of vaxxed cases is much higher.

No idea if this makes any sense to anyone else, but it does to me.

And of course, it's not as simple as this as immunity is more complex than just "vaxxed or unvaxxed". But hopefully it explains why some people are saying it's less severe, whilst others saying no evidence for change. Both can be right, depending on exactly what they mean.
Click to expand...
if this is true below then not sure where you are coming from in saying "as severe" if you say "as/more infectious"
then maybe

The head of the South African Medical Association has just said the variant still seems to be causing milder symptoms than the previously dominant Delta virus.

Dr Angelique Coetzee told the Science and Technology Committee that even hospitalised patients needed care for half as long – and were less likely to need oxygen.
 
Any idea when the lateral flow tests will be available again? Three of us taking them and have 7 left, the pharmacies around here have none, can't order online and even where I had the vaccine yesterday had none.

At this is rate going to have to test less often if we want any kind of Christmas with family. Frustrating as we've been regularly testing twice a week for months and no supply issues, feels like now everyone who couldn't give a fcuk previously has nabbed them all.

Maybe that is the key, tell everyone that 'face nappies' are short and they'll all suddenly have several.

Although getting them to wear them correctly is another challenge, even my 5 yo loudly asked at the school drop off this morning if 'that man' doesn't know how masks work because his nose is poking out.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
There is a wish among government to avoid having any travellers in a quarantine hotel on Christmas Day - instead required to spend their 10 days of isolation at home.
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if that is the case then its as ludicrous as last christmas decision to tell the virus to have a day off!!!
 
tonea2003 said:
if this is true below then not sure where you are coming from in saying "as severe" if you say "as/more infectious"
then maybe

The head of the South African Medical Association has just said the variant still seems to be causing milder symptoms than the previously dominant Delta virus.

Dr Angelique Coetzee told the Science and Technology Committee that even hospitalised patients needed care for half as long – and were less likely to need oxygen.
Click to expand...

I've no idea if it's less severe or not, not claiming anything either way, but the above could explain SA observations if there's a lot more immunity now than there was when delta hit, if hospitalizations of the unvaxxed result in a higher likelihood of ICU.

Mainly trying to make the point that it's possible both for it to appear less severe (which is a very good thing for projections of hospital capacity as cases don't translate so much into patients being admitted ) whilst actually being just as likely to result in severe disease for any given patient.
 
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