Russian invasion of Ukraine

Homar said:
So it would be fine if Venezuela or Cuba invited China and/or Russia to construct hundreds of military bases? Why should the US be allowed to construct hundreds of bases thousands of miles from its borders, strategically positioned next to its self-declared enemies, but Russia and China should not? Why should the US be allowed to send its military to the borders of Russia or China, but Russia shouldn’t be allowed to send its military to Belarus?
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The Russians ARE in Belarus, which is a Russian satellite!

Whether you care to admit it or not, you believe that it’s one set of rules for the US and another for the rest of the world. This belief is a product of your indoctrination. A result of the American exceptionalism fallacy. And that post was not targeted specifically at yourself.
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I’m not sure why I’m not allowed to have a view contrary to yours without it having been indoctrinated?

US places defensive forces across the globe to protect its legitimate economic and allied interests.

If we’re in a dispute over territory and amassed an OFFENSIVE force on a border, I would expect the same outrage as we have seen here regarding Russia.

However, this all ignores the fact that, for all intents and purposes, the US is an island, with no land bridge connecting it to its main global Allies, thus it NEEDS to have staging areas in those Allies’ countries IF it is to assist in their protection.

Land and air forces notwithstanding, we might all be shocked and surprised if we could pinpoint every American, Russian and Soviet nuclear submarine around the globe, and anyone’s sub could decimate any country on earth and obliterate most!

If you were born Russian, there’s a good chance you’d be defending Russia. If you were born North Korean, you’d probably be marching in their parades. If you were born Iranian, you’d be chanting “death to America”. If you were on the receiving end of America’s brutality, you’d think differently about the country you’ve been taught to worship.
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Please don’t be so condescending. Feel free to address the issues I raise and the points I rebuff, but please stop with the “You’re a Yankee Drone” bullshit.

I’m a fairly well educated citizen of the UK & USA who travels the world for a living. I’d venture I’ve been more places than most and try to understand where I’m going or might be headed in an emergency, as I’m going to be responsible for 250-350 people when we get there.

I’ve flown into, over and around all of the places about which we are talking and take a great interest in the geopolitics.

I have no desire to continue this nonsense. Take care,
 
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ChicagoBlue said:
The Russians ARE in Belarus, which is a Russian satellite!


I’m not sure why I’m not allowed to have a view contrary to yours without it having been indoctrinated?

US places defensive forces across the globe to protect its legitimate economic and allied interests.

If we’re in a dispute over territory and amassed an OFFENSIVE force on a border, I would expect the same outrage as we have seen here regarding Russia.

However, this all ignores the fact that, for all intents and purposes, the US is an island, with no land bridge connecting it to its main global Allies, thus it NEEDS to have staging areas in those Allies’ countries IF it is to assist in their protection.

Land and air forces notwithstanding, we might all be shocked and surprised if we could pinpoint every American, Russian and Soviet nuclear submarine around the globe, and anyone’s sub could decimate any country on earth and obliterate most!


Please don’t be so condescending. Feel free to address the issues I raise and the points I rebuff, but please stop with the “You’re a Yankee Drone” bullshit.

I’m a fairly well educated citizen of the UK & USA who travels the world for a living. I’d venture I’ve been more places than most and try to understand where I’m going or might be headed in an emergency, as I’m going to be responsible for 250-350 people when we get there.

I’ve flown into, over and around all of the places about which we are talking and take a great interest in the geopolitics.

I have no desire to continue this nonsense. Take care,
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My point with regards to Belarus was that the US complains about Russian deployments, but deploys its own military at hundreds of bases across the globe, bordering states that it has declared to be its enemies. Anyway, the point has been made several times and you don’t seem to appreciate the hypocrisy so I’ll not repeat it again.

The US has done far far worse than build up its forces on the borders of neighbouring countries. I’ve pointed out just a few of it’s nefarious activities. I could go on for hours about this, but what’s the point. You’re too far gone. The US has been able to do whatever it wanted by virtue of the size of its economy and the might of its military. The next century will be far less favourable.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
History says they were not nukes. In fact, it was Turkey that wanted the weapons and Congress that sought not to activate them, in favor of simply having a nuke sub patrol for all of Europe.

For a fuller context, from the Turkish perspective, rather than the US or Russia…



I think you will find the missiles in Turkey, which were removed as part of the negotiation, were NEVER an offensive threat to Russia. Their removal allowed America to look like it was giving, and the Soviets looked like they’d traded nukes on their doorstep for nukes on America’s doorstep.

And the whole charade satisfied Khrushchev and the Soviets, and they withdrew.
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Well, there you go. Much grandstanding on the world stage, and when push came to shove, it all calmed down.
 
metalblue said:
I get it, you hate the US, but some perspective won’t go amiss.

When you say hundreds of bases you actually mean 90 permanent bases across about 40 counties, including those bases in NATO members along with other security co-operative nations? And who says both China and Russia can’t? You do know both of them have oversea bases as well don’t you? China is currently looking to setup a second base in Africa this one along the Atlantic seaboard - an ocean it doesn’t border - similar to the US and the Indian Ocean. Yes the US is trying to prevent this and in the interests of “all is fair in love and war” it’s a little bit rich them doing so if you only measure it against the US having bases but I’d rather have the US policing the world than the Chinese, all day, every day.

Anyroad I’m sure the residents of Taiwan and South Korea, to name but two, are delighted that the US provides a counter balance to regional powerhouses and would be aggressors.
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The number I’ve seen is 750. Regardless, it’s far more than any other country and probably more than all other countries combined, much like their military spending.

Nobody said China or Russia can’t, but I’m damn certain that the US would not tolerate a major Chinese or Russian military presence on the continent that it considers its backyard.

You might well prefer the US to police the world, but you’ll find that view not to be shared by most of the world. I’m sure you wouldn’t hold such views if you were on the receiving end of that “policing”.
 
Homar said:
My point with regards to Belarus was that the US complains about Russian deployments, but deploys its own military at hundreds of bases across the globe, bordering states that it has declared to be its enemies. Anyway, the point has been made several times and you don’t seem to appreciate the hypocrisy so I’ll not repeat it again.

The US has done far far worse than build up its forces on the borders of neighbouring countries. I’ve pointed out just a few of it’s nefarious activities. I could go on for hours about this, but what’s the point. You’re too far gone. The US has been able to do whatever it wanted by virtue of the size of its economy and the might of its military. The next century will be far less favourable.
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It's hypocrisy, if taken very simplistically. We can have bases near you, but you can't have any near us.

As with most things there's a lot of nuance, geopolitical history and very valid reasons that need to be taken into account as to the difference between the USA having bases abroad near their perceived 'enemies' and say Russia having bases near the USA.

Despite some peoples feeling towards the USA, having them play the role as World Police has worked pretty well for most of us for the past 75+ years. The most ardent supporter of the US will concede that the US tends to step in only when provoked or more often than not, when if it benefits US interests, however the majority of the world, especially Europe, sleeps well at night because of them.

Russia and China are the next two 'super powers' and both have had, and currently still do, have eyes on expanding not only their influence but also their territories. This makes a lot of countries that neighbor these military giants very nervous indeed and fortunately at this moment in time they can rely on their relationship with the US to ensure they are not invaded. Ukraine is currently one of these countries.

You might not like the US, nor care for their foreign policy but it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
 
mexico1970 said:
This has turned into an anti-American thread, thankfully most people in the UK and Europe don't think like that.
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To be fair if they were a football club they would be liverpool.

Self entitled.
Make everything about them (world series ffs).
Have their own version of history.
Plenty of racist, cunts and notrites but they pretend they are wholesome.
Take the piss out of their own regulary.
Cause trouble everytime they go overseas.
Never their fault.
 
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Homar said:
My point with regards to Belarus was that the US complains about Russian deployments, but deploys its own military at hundreds of bases across the globe, bordering states that it has declared to be its enemies. Anyway, the point has been made several times and you don’t seem to appreciate the hypocrisy so I’ll not repeat it again.

The US has done far far worse than build up its forces on the borders of neighbouring countries. I’ve pointed out just a few of it’s nefarious activities. I could go on for hours about this, but what’s the point. You’re too far gone. The US has been able to do whatever it wanted by virtue of the size of its economy and the might of its military. The next century will be far less favourable.
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It’s nonsense.

These outposts are, for the most part, defensive lily pads, based not only on America’s geographic isolation from its Allies but the global alliances of which America was a part.

As an ally of the Philippines, for instance, was America supposed to spend days steaming out to that South Pacific outpost or did it make considerably more sense for America AND THE PHILIPPINES to have a Naval Base and Air Base there?

As for your assertion about the next century, I guess that’ll be one century, almost two, later than Britain’s!

American hate seems a little rampant amongst the Commie class on here. Good luck with that!

Wasted enough time on stating the obvious. I’m neither an apologist for American foreign policy, nor an advocate for every military venture they have ever endured.

However, it appears that as Russia aggressively encircles Ukraine, seeking to regain their old Soviet grounds, America being an ally of so many nations is a suitable distraction from the glaringly obvious.

While proud of my British heritage, I am also proud that America has welcomed me with relatively open arms and has allowed me a life I could never have achieved had I stayed in Britain. As a result of that, I look on with a jaundiced eye when I see and hear American history rewritten and dragged through the mud.

There is much to be concerned about in the world. America’s place in it is not one of them.
 
urban genie said:
To be fair if they were a football club they would be liverpool.

Self entitled.
Make everything about them (world series ffs).
Have their own version of history.
Plenty of racist, cunts and notrites but they pretend they are wholesome.
Take the piss out of their own regulary.
Cause trouble everytime they go overseas.
Never their fault.
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Funny stuff!

You could be talking about Britain with every one of them, except the Baseball, which most of the world doesn’t play.

Just another “notrite” yourself?
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Funny stuff!

You could be talking about Britain with every one of them, except the Baseball, which most of the world doesn’t play.

Just another “notrite” yourself?
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Nah britains move like Villa or Everton

Plus baseball is played profesionally in 140 countries, just none are invited to the world series

And yes I am a notirite many a time, thanks for saying
 
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urban genie said:
To be fair if they were a football club they would be liverpool.

Self entitled.
Make everything about them (world series ffs).
Have their own version of history.
Plenty of racist, cunts and notrites but they pretend they are wholesome.
Take the piss out of their own regulary.
Cause trouble everytime they go overseas.
Never their fault.
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didnt they also lob bottles and bricks at buses during the civil rights movement...
 
I reckon if they are going to do it they will wait until their new buddy's Olympic shindig is over. I think this is the date they have set and probably loved all the premature talk of 'Wednesday.'
 
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