Russian invasion of Ukraine

Didsbury Dave said:
the best way out of this is if the Russian people turn on Putin so we definitely should be attacking them in ways like this. No football is a good way of furthering this aim without actually harming anyone.
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This will happen quicker than you would think. I can imagine that Putin promised something very quick and swift but it hasn't worked out that way. This is one of the largest superpowers going up against a very average military, they should of had no problem taking the country within a day but it hasn't been so easy and Russia looks horrendous in the world right now.

The longer it goes on the harsher things will get at home. Many of these ogliarchs had half of their money wiped out yesterday in one day and any assets they do have over here will wilt away as it carries on. They no longer have access to foreign finance, they only have the Russian banks who have virtually collapsed. Their cushty lives are going to be made very difficult for the sake of something they probably don't care about.

Putins meeting with them yesterday was very telling, we've even seen protests in Moscow. Let's not pretend that Russia is united against Ukraine, it's quite the opposite.



 
blueinsa said:
I think that’s disingenuous mate tbh.

Along with the US and EU the sanctions packages amount to far more than just empty words and if the Germans allow the EU to come in line with us re swift then it’s almost game over for Russia economically wise.

NATO as things stand can not come up against Russia for very obvious reasons.
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Not a cat in hells chance the Germans will do much more about Ukraine. They are just not prepared to suffer economically. Western Europe relies far too much on Russian Gas. Since yesterday morning and the start of the invasion the Germans alone have bought $180,000,000 of gas from the Russians, they get over half their gas from them. If the Russians turn off the gas the German economy would collapse along with the rest of Europe. Europe simply isnt prepared to accept much if pain over the loss of Ukraine.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Not a cat in hells chance the Germans will do much more about Ukraine. They are just not prepared to suffer economically. Western Europe relies far too much on Russian Gas. Since yesterday morning and the start of the invasion the Germans alone have bought $180,000,000 of gas from the Russians, they get over half their gas from them. If the Russians turn off the gas the German economy would collapse along with the rest of Europe. Europe simply isnt prepared to accept much if pain over the loss of Ukraine.
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Then shame on Germany then.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Not a cat in hells chance the Germans will do much more about Ukraine. They are just not prepared to suffer economically. Western Europe relies far too much on Russian Gas. Since yesterday morning and the start of the invasion the Germans alone have bought $180,000,000 of gas from the Russians, they get over half their gas from them. If the Russians turn off the gas the German economy would collapse along with the rest of Europe. Europe simply isnt prepared to accept much if pain over the loss of Ukraine.
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Yesterday Germany were the ones being lauded for standing up to Putin, now they're the villains of the piece.

Bloody hard to keep up with this.
 
mexico1970 said:
Yesterday Germany were the ones being lauded for standing up to Putin, now they're the villains of the piece.

Bloody hard to keep up with this.
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Nobody but Ukraine is going to stand up to him.
Couple of petty sanctions,that's about it.
Boris and Prince Andrew have probably spoke to Putin,thanking him for keeping the limelight off them.
 
inbetween said:
This will happen quicker than you would think. I can imagine that Putin promised something very quick and swift but it hasn't worked out that way. This is one of the largest superpowers going up against a very average military, they should of had no problem taking the country within a day but it hasn't been so easy and Russia looks horrendous in the world right now.

The longer it goes on the harsher things will get at home. Many of these ogliarchs had half of their money wiped out yesterday in one day and any assets they do have over here will wilt away as it carries on. They no longer have access to foreign finance, they only have the Russian banks who have virtually collapsed. Their cushty lives are going to be made very difficult for the sake of something they probably don't care about.

Putins meeting with them yesterday was very telling, we've even seen protests in Moscow. Let's not pretend that Russia is united against Ukraine, it's quite the opposite.



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I think you might be right to some extent. I don't think that Putin is the evil genius that people might think he is. He's certainly evil but I think he's bitten off more than he can chew by invading a large country on a false pretext. The USA have played it quite well by telegraphing everything that he was about to do leaving the world in absolutely no doubt that there was no possible justification for Russia's action. The protests in Russia aren't going to get smaller and the Russian businesses being decimated by sanctions are going to put enormous pressure on Putin. Without the quick wins in Ukraine from a not very motivated army it could quickly unwind. Still some way to go and a lot of unnecessary deaths but I can't see it lasting for too long.
Could be completely wrong though.
 
dave_blue12 said:
I haven’t checked the veracity of the list but this potentially puts the importance of Ukraine in an entirely different light


Mind blowing stats, worth a read.

We are all watching the news like hawks... And maybe like the rest of us you are wondering why are Russia invading Ukraine.

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter❓ “
This is why Ukraine matters.

It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.

Minerals:
Ukraine ranks:
⚗1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
⚙2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
⛽3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)

Ukraine is an important agricultural country: ‍

1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.

Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

Ukraine is an important industrialised country:

1st in Europe in ammonia production;
⛽Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
☢3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
☄9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
⛓10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

Ukraine matters❗
That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world❗.
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I knew it was important in many ways but Ukranian cheese exports sit at 16th in the world!?

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/ukraine/articles/a-cheese-lovers-guide-to-ukraine/
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Not a cat in hells chance the Germans will do much more about Ukraine. They are just not prepared to suffer economically. Western Europe relies far too much on Russian Gas. Since yesterday morning and the start of the invasion the Germans alone have bought $180,000,000 of gas from the Russians, they get over half their gas from them. If the Russians turn off the gas the German economy would collapse along with the rest of Europe. Europe simply isnt prepared to accept much if pain over the loss of Ukraine.
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The Germans have acted disgracefully - that is without question. However, the Russians will never switch off the gas. They simply cannot afford to do so. It is a major source of income for them which without they are in real trouble.
Just another example of the Germans looking after the Germans and sod everybody else. What's new?
 
Eds said:
Thanks for your answer but I really don't know where to start, but it's your believe and I don't have the time nor inclination to discuss as you are set in your ways which is your prerogative. Let's hope that a ceasefire is called very quickly, lasts and that Putin realises that his actions are indefensible to all except a minority
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That’s all fair enough, except the very last bit if you’re referring to me, I’m not defending Putin, blaming NATO isn’t the same as defending Putin, it’s not binary.
 
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