The Conservative Party

[Magicpole]

Ahead of the curve you lot. We still haven't worked out that the Tories are cunts let alone 'electable' Labour.

I am glad to confirm for anyone still unsure of the absolute fact that Tories are cunts, that the word **** doesnt do them the justice of how bad they are. As for labour being electable? I'm afraid that is complstely beyond me.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Quick recap. You claimed that Starmer was 'opening people's eyes' and 'swinging the pendulum' and in a roundabout way I said you were talking bollocks. The polls, as subjective as they are, back me up.

The less said about your penultimate line the better :)

I’ll leave you to posting your little polls to support your assumptions, and I’ll live in my little world of seeing Labour becoming more popular as this goes on. Hell, we haven’t even seen the real squeeze yet.

 

[dave_blue12]

God ... that was a depressing read.

I wonder if any of the Tory fans on here read it.

Probably not, as it doesn't fit their belief system.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

According to Shapps, the email form P&O about sacking all their ferryworkers didn't actually get forwarded to the Transport Secretary.
He said that he only heard about the sacking when the video broke and while he was in the House of Commons.

How can the Transport Secretary not get told?

 

[inbetween]

But money does grow on trees. It’s created by the banks. QE for example, just under a trillion created by the BoE, a by product being the asset rich got richer. QE isn’t going away, the markets love the drug. But QE could be used to fund social projects or infrastructure, the next step on the helicopter. The problem is not many politicians can explain what money is and many politicians of the Tory kind don’t want to change the status quo.
Social mobility means some at the top will have to lose their position to create space for those at the bottom to move up a bit. That’s the antithesis of what Tories are about.

This is the wrong way to think about QE. QE artificially funds inflation which is why we aren't and shouldn't ever use QE to pay for things. At the moment we are using low interest borrowed money to pay for things which is far more sustainable. The furlough scheme and all government spending just for example is paid for via borrowed money, not by QE.

QE is required to keep the money supply going where new money is issued to banks (by buying securities from the banks) and the banks then lend to businesses and you and me which makes the bank money. Those banks will then use their profits to lend more and the merry-go-round goes on. It also hopefully means you can get a mortgage, or a loan for a car etc.

If you use QE to pay for things though then the value of our money goes down because we aren't getting richer from profit or selling things, we just have more money. With that inflation goes up because the drop in value means it costs more to pay people for imports, services, products etc.

In any event mentioning the Tories on monetary policy is pointless because monetary policy is run by the Bank of England which is completely separate from politics.

 

[Zinchilla]

This is the wrong way to think about QE. QE artificially funds inflation which is why we aren't and shouldn't ever use QE to pay for things. At the moment we are using low interest borrowed money to pay for things which is far more sustainable. The furlough scheme just for example was paid for via borrowed money, not by QE. The reason it has to be borrowed is because today as taxpayers we don't pay enough in to fund everything that needs paying for.

QE is required to keep the money supply going where new money is issued to banks who lend to businesses and you and me which makes the bank money, this gives money its value. Those banks will then use their profits to lend more and the merry-go-round goes on as existing money and not new money floats around the system.

If you use QE to pay for things then the value of our money goes down because there's more of it, inflation goes up and things eventually cost more because it costs more to pay people for imports, services, products etc. So in the end we would need even more money than we ever created with QE and the spiral begins.

This is the wrong way to think about QE. QE artificially funds inflation which is why we aren't and shouldn't ever use QE to pay for things. At the moment we are using low interest borrowed money to pay for things which is far more sustainable. The furlough scheme and all government spending just for example is paid for via borrowed money, not by QE.

QE is required to keep the money supply going where new money is issued to banks (by buying securities from the banks) and the banks then lend to businesses and you and me which makes the bank money. Those banks will then use their profits to lend more and the merry-go-round goes on. It also hopefully means you can get a mortgage, or a loan for a car etc.

If you use QE to pay for things though then the value of our money goes down because we aren't getting richer from profit or selling things, we just have more money. With that inflation goes up because the drop in value means it costs more to pay people for imports, services, products etc.

In any event mentioning the Tories on monetary policy is pointless because monetary policy is run by the Bank of England which is completely separate from politics.

Yes and no. Yes, QE kept interest rates low so government can borrow in a very affordable way. We pretty much borrowed from ourselves to pay for furlough etc. We’ll never create enough tax to pay our way so borrowing is essential. Our tax take is what, 33%, we take much less than other G7 or EU countries, but even if tax levels get higher (as they should through corporation and tax on higher earners) we will still need to borrow. That borrowing doesn’t create inflation. We still borrow much less than France, Italy, Japan and the US. I’d argue we could borrow more at these low interest rates, but there’s the moral twitchiness of mainly Tory voters who hate the idea of borrowing and are hooked on Osborne’s living within our means mantra - which will never happen. And look where 10 years of austerity got us.

QE has obviously increased the supply of money, it helped the balance sheets of banks, and the liquidity has reassured, but it hasn’t caused inflation. But the investment has gone into assets, not GDP, if you’re big enough to access the capital markets, great, if not it won’t help your growth. Banks didn’t really use it to lend to increase GDP.

There’s now a strong argument that QE could be used for a national development bank, as they have in Germany, Brazil etc. Strategic QE - public money for public benefit, so yes, a money tree, but not one that creates inflation by simply chucking money at people, a tree which develops the real economy, not just the markets.

 

[Postman Pep]

I’ll leave you to posting your little polls to support your assumptions, and I’ll live in my little world of seeing Labour becoming more popular as this goes on. Hell, we haven’t even seen the real squeeze yet.

Fucking lol. So you are suggesting that your gut feeling, informed with a dose of wishful thinking, is a more accurate way of gauging the mood of the nation than opinion polls, as flawed as they are.
I'll leave you to your delusions.

 

[BobKowalski]

Tory Ministers shocked over ‘hire and fire’...

 

[Len Rum]

But if Labour would just for one fucking moment consider that money doesn't grow on trees, then perhaps they would not be quite so intensely infuriating.

Seem to remember your hero Mavis preaching to a pensioner that money didn't grow on trees before the 2017 election and then suddenly finding a spare billion to pay off the DUP after the election.
You're still taken in by the Thatcherite/Osborne ( very successful) con trick that a country has to balance it's books just like the family budget.

 

[BobKowalski]

Yes and no. Yes, QE kept interest rates low so government can borrow in a very affordable way. We pretty much borrowed from ourselves to pay for furlough etc. We’ll never create enough tax to pay our way so borrowing is essential. Our tax take is what, 33%, we take much less than other G7 or EU countries, but even if tax levels get higher (as they should through corporation and tax on higher earners) we will still need to borrow. That borrowing doesn’t create inflation. We still borrow much less than France, Italy, Japan and the US. I’d argue we could borrow more at these low interest rates, but there’s the moral twitchiness of mainly Tory voters who hate the idea of borrowing and are hooked on Osborne’s living within our means mantra - which will never happen. And look where 10 years of austerity got us.

QE has obviously increased the supply of money, it helped the balance sheets of banks, and the liquidity has reassured, but it hasn’t caused inflation. But the investment has gone into assets, not GDP, if you’re big enough to access the capital markets, great, if not it won’t help your growth. Banks didn’t really use it to lend to increase GDP.

There’s now a strong argument that QE could be used for a national development bank, as they have in Germany, Brazil etc. Strategic QE - public money for public benefit, so yes, a money tree, but not one that creates inflation by simply chucking money at people, a tree which develops the real economy, not just the markets.

Ten years of austerity? Rate we’re going it will be a guaranteed 15 years and probably 20. And that’s if we’re lucky.

Nearly 15 years of failed politics and a Govt that has no clue how to expand or grow business. This lot make Tony Benn look like a raving capitalist.

I kind of went off at a tangent there. Interesting points in your post.

 

[BobKowalski]

Seem to remember your hero Mavis preaching to a pensioner that money didn't grow on trees before the 2017 election and then suddenly finding a spare billion to pay off the DUP after the election.
You're still taken in by the Thatcherite/Osborne ( very successful) con trick that a country has to balance it's books just like the family budget.

A con trick that has fucked us in the arse. Trouble with the Tory Party and their voters is that they are clueless on the real world economy. To busy harking back to the 1950’s. Another shit decade for the UK, so you can see why they like it.

 

[mat]

looking at the papers front pages Sunak has shit his hole full - he ain't being made leader any time soon

Tomorrow's Papers Today - UK Front Pages - Latest Newspaper Headlines

All of UK's Tomorrow's Front Pages ✅ Updated Daily between 7PM - 11pm ✅ The Mail, Express, Times, Guardian and many more Proudly supporting #buyapaper

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

One would think Boris let the attack dogs go in after Sunak got positives reviews in the Gammon press.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Seem to remember your hero Mavis preaching to a pensioner that money didn't grow on trees before the 2017 election and then suddenly finding a spare billion to pay off the DUP after the election.
You're still taken in by the Thatcherite/Osborne ( very successful) con trick that a country has to balance it's books just like the family budget.

Your paragraph got off to a rather poor start, Len. Mavis was never my "hero", in fact I couldn't stand the woman, so your memory fails you it seems.

And forgive me for not taking too seriously economic lessons from a man who couldn't get his head around the difference between debt and deficit after having it explained MANY times.

Other than that, how are you doing? Long time no speak.

 

[mat]

According to Shapps, the email form P&O about sacking all their ferryworkers didn't actually get forwarded to the Transport Secretary.
He said that he only heard about the sacking when the video broke and while he was in the House of Commons.

How can the Transport Secretary not get told?

Michael Green is a proven liar. I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

 

[bluethrunthru]

One would think Boris let the attack dogs go in after Sunak got positives reviews in the Gammon press.

Personally I think its all Sunak's own doing - he has only been an MP for just under 7 years - his meteoric rise is at the expense of any real experience - he was parachuted in to a very safe seat and never had to tough it out there.

Also take into account that they all seem to have absolute piss poor advisers surrounding them - goes back to when Johnson was London Mayor and someone in his team thought "you know what - him in a suit on a zip wire will look good " to somebody saying to Sunak - "pretend to put petrol in that little persons car then go in the kiosk and pay" and then when he showed he hadn't a fucking clue how to use a debit card the thought was still " right - that footage is in the can lets put it out there and watch the plaudits flood in"

Also I don't think the press post Spring Statement was that supportive of Sunak - as biased as they may be even hacks on the Mail and Express can see that as the year goes on there will be two Britains. In one people will be travelling abroad on holiday or having nice staycations whilst attending restaurants and buying EV's - in the second one people will be cold and hungry struggling to get to work because of high petrol and diesel prices to repay higher rents and buy cheaper food - they will have no holidays and those hacks know that at some stage they will have to report on the increased incidences of malnutrition and even people dying in the UK and they value Johnson's big majority as much as the Tory Party do and they can see that by the time of the next GE a vague promise of a penny off income tax just won't cut it.

 

[Zinchilla]

A con trick that has fucked us in the arse. Trouble with the Tory Party and their voters is that they are clueless on the real world economy. To busy harking back to the 1950’s. Another shit decade for the UK, so you can see why they like it.

Agree. It’s incredible how the balancing the books myth has remained. The Tories have historically borrowed more and paid bale as than Labour.

Pre-covid austerity created more borrowing, but that didn’t create anything. But now is the time to create money to fund proper growth (along with a fiscal policy that isn’t just designed to keep the Tories in power).

What shouldn’t be forgotten is that the Tories are driven by the need to stay in power. That’s their reason for being. Nothing else.

 

[Zinchilla]

Personally I think its all Sunak's own doing - he has only been an MP for just under 7 years - his meteoric rise is at the expense of any real experience - he was parachuted in to a very safe seat and never had to tough it out there.

Also take into account that they all seem to have absolute piss poor advisers surrounding them - goes back to when Johnson was London Mayor and someone in his team thought "you know what - him in a suit on a zip wire will look good " to somebody saying to Sunak - "pretend to put petrol in that little persons car then go in the kiosk and pay" and then when he showed he hadn't a fucking clue how to use a debit card the thought was still " right - that footage is in the can lets put it out there and watch the plaudits flood in"

Also I don't think the press post Spring Statement was that supportive of Sunak - as biased as they may be even hacks on the Mail and Express can see that as the year goes on there will be two Britains. In one people will be travelling abroad on holiday or having nice staycations whilst attending restaurants and buying EV's - in the second one people will be cold and hungry struggling to get to work because of high petrol and diesel prices to repay higher rents and buy cheaper food - they will have no holidays and those hacks know that at some stage they will have to report on the increased incidences of malnutrition and even people dying in the UK and they value Johnson's big majority as much as the Tory Party do and they can see that by the time of the next GE a vague promise of a penny off income tax just won't cut it.

It’s a good point about Sunak. He is the hope that the Tories are pinning everything on - see the closing comment in question time last night. But he may be bright, but he’s 10 years away from the experience he really needs for the position he is in. In any pre-2010 government he’d remain a junior minister. Highlights the lack of talent and experience at the moment, ideologues have driven them away. And I think that was the case in all the main parties at the last election.

 

[Chris in London]

Spring mini budget 2022 - Sunak found 50bn down the back of the sofa but instead of using it now to benefit the poorest who will be hit most by price rises, he kept it back to fund a cut in income tax in two years time which will be of most benefit to the better off.

No.

Sunak swapped one tax for another, one rise, one cut, in a way that is essentially tax-neutral for the overwhelming majority of the population. By bringing in the rise before bringing in the cut he gives himself a little wiggle room.

It’s window dressing, basically. We are where we were anyway. He hasn’t done anything that will hurt the poorest, but he hasn’t lifted a finger to help them.

 

[Len Rum]

Your paragraph got off to a rather poor start, Len. Mavis was never my "hero", in fact I couldn't stand the woman, so your memory fails you it seems.

And forgive me for not taking too seriously economic lessons from a man who couldn't get his head around the difference between debt and deficit after having it explained MANY times.

Other than that, how are you doing? Long time no speak.

I'm OK thanks.
Good to have a one nation Conservative like yourself back in the politics thread.
PS Come on mate, ditch the old ' I don't understand the difference between debt and deficit'!
PPS We're all Rory Stewart fans now aren't we?

 

[Len Rum]

No.

Sunak swapped one tax for another, one rise, one cut, in a way that is essentially tax-neutral for the overwhelming majority of the population. By bringing in the rise before bringing in the cut he gives himself a little wiggle room.

It’s window dressing, basically. We are where we were anyway. He hasn’t done anything that will hurt the poorest, but he hasn’t lifted a finger to help them.

You've lost me there mate.
As I understood it he had 50bn more to play with than he thought he would a few weeks/ months ago.
So he's chosen to bank that rather than spend it in giving more help to the less well off.
Even Ed Conway on Sky said as much!