Keir Starmer

bluethrunthru said:
That doesn't work mate - the Yanks they are trying to sell it to make their cash in the States by having a large cohort of sick people they can fleece - they don't wanna kill the sick they want to keep them alive for longer in droves and at great expense
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Just have to make their fortune in insurance then.
 
west didsblue said:
You mean the report commissioned by Keir Starmer that exposed the factionalism within the Labour Party and was highly critical of both factions. That doesn’t make Starmer a horrible ****. It shows him to be someone who wants to resolve the problems within the party and move on.
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I don't care about your politics,but it's not possible to honestly come to this conclusion.

Starmer believes, as Blair and Brown believed, that the problem with the Labour Party is the Party itself. That's why we had New Labour and The Third Way.

Starmer is not in the resolving business, he believes the only way to save the Labour Party is to destroy it, and that's precisely what he is doing.
 
The perfect fumble said:
I don't care about your politics,but it's not possible to honestly come to this conclusion.

Starmer believes, as Blair and Brown believed, that the problem with the Labour Party is the Party itself. That's why we had New Labour and The Third Way.

Starmer is not in the resolving business, he believes the only way to save the Labour Party is to destroy it, and that's precisely what he is doing.
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The fact that he commissioned the report and it has been published warts and all suggests he wants to get past this issue. It makes sense to do it now rather than have it like a festering sore in the run up to the election. So yes, it has painted a lot of people in a bad light including himself but it is already yesterday’s news, and those that are serious about wanting to beat the Tories at the next election are moving on.
 
west didsblue said:
The fact that he commissioned the report and it has been published warts and all suggests he wants to get past this issue. It makes sense to do it now rather than have it like a festering sore in the run up to the election. So yes, it has painted a lot of people in a bad light including himself but it is already yesterday’s news, and those that are serious about wanting to beat the Tories at the next election are moving on.
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His hand was forced in commissioning that report and when you state...." it is already yesterday’s news"....

It was never any days news!

Mostly ignored when it came out, superficially reported at best and quickly buried.

It "resolved" precisely nothing.
 
The perfect fumble said:
His hand was forced in commissioning that report and when you state...." it is already yesterday’s news"....

It was never any days news!

Mostly ignored when it came out, superficially reported at best and quickly buried.

It "resolved" precisely nothing.
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It may not have resolved much but it gives Starmer the opportunity to say it has been addressed when his detractors bring it up, and it’s better for it all to come out in one go rather than regular leaks causing a distraction from the important business of providing effective opposition to the worst government in living memory.
 
blueparrot said:
What’s interesting ? Do you really think the vast majority of voters take the slightest bit of notice of something like the Ford report when they vote? How many voters even read a party manifesto before an election, I’d guess very few. Surely whatever your personal views on that stuff,you can't believe that
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It seems to me there's some deep revisionism going on with your PoV.

In 2017, Labour came within thousands of votes of becoming the governing party. Why, because Corbyn's policies were allowed to go directly to the people as the MSM didn't take him seriously.

I can't recall Corbyn being falsely accused of antisemitism back then, which became one of the weapons used in the MSM in the next election run.

I'm pretty sure you remember the MSM differences in presentation of Corbyn in favour of the utterly oafish Johnson!!

So, yes, you're wrong about people not reading manifestos. You saw what I saw in 2017. So, when the MSM presented utter lies over Corbyn in the next election attempt, what do you think the result would have been if they were forced to retract the lies, publically?

Do you not think peoples views would have changed?
 
west didsblue said:
It may not have resolved much but it gives Starmer the opportunity to say it has been addressed when his detractors bring it up, and it’s better for it all to come out in one go rather than regular leaks causing a distraction from the important business of providing effective opposition to the worst government in living memory.
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I can't force you to open your eyes if you'd rather keep them shut.

I rarely venture in here these days because all too often it's not difference of opinion that's discussed, but banging heads attempting to get folk to see what my old dad used to call "the bleedin obvious"

Believe me when I say I don't mean to insult you, but your post is meaningless nonsense, unhinged from reality, it is not founded in anything really and unless you're a complete moron, and I don't believe you are, then you're knowingly talking out your arse.
 
The perfect fumble said:
I can't force you to open your eyes if you'd rather keep them shut.

I rarely venture in here these days because all too often it's not difference of opinion that's discussed, but banging heads attempting to get folk to see what my old dad used to call "the bleedin obvious"

Believe me when I say I don't mean to insult you, but your post is meaningless nonsense, unhinged from reality, it is not founded in anything really and unless you're a complete moron, and I don't believe you are, then you're knowingly talking out your arse.
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Your shtick is getting boring.
Anyone who can’t see it is a moron but no description of what “it” is.
And you describe my post as meaningless nonsense!
Not really arsed about any further discussion with you. Your next post will probably be a stupid gif next like usual.

By the way I saw your abusive post earlier before it disappeared which is another reason I don’t give a fuck what you have to say.
 
Bigga said:
It seems to me there's some deep revisionism going on with your PoV.

In 2017, Labour came within thousands of votes of becoming the governing party. Why, because Corbyn's policies were allowed to go directly to the people as the MSM didn't take him seriously.
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Corbyn did well in 2017 because Theresa May was toxic. Also the election happened when students were at their University's - not dispersed around the country back with their Mums and Dads. (They wont ever let that happen again).

When Corbyn went up against someone popular he crashed and burned.

But back to Keir Starmer: it is as if he wants to lose:

www.theguardian.com

Keir Starmer unveils green growth plan to counter Liz Truss’s tax cuts

Labour pledges a revolution in green energy to ‘boost jobs and slash emissions
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Why put the focus on 'green issues'? My parents are in their 70s and due to the demographics of the country so are millions of other people. They don't give a sh1te about 'green issues' because it wont ever effect them.
 
El_george said:
Corbyn did well in 2017 because Theresa May was toxic.
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as it stands at the moment most right thinking middle of the road Tories would not agree - the idea they would have Johnson back is a joke - he is about to become ridiculed in many investigations into his handling of many things (rather like Trump) - I suspect in 12 months time if Truss lasts that long many Tories will look back fondly on May as a period of sane Tory politics
 
MillsyTheMosher said:
This government do more for underprivileged people than the vast majority of countries around the world. Anyone fit and able to work that blames the government for their own shortcomings is simply playing an entitled victim mentality.
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I’ll be polite and say ‘What a Wanker’. Couldn’t say it any other way than this.

Oh, And I’m in that 45 per cent pay range and at the upper end understand that there are far more lesser well off.

To be so derisory may say a lot about yourself because if you need that extra cash, probably means that you are living well beyond them.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Put simply we should stop paying in work top up benefits. I'd imagine that somehow all the supermarkets etc would magically find the money to pay employee's properly rather than shut the doors and have no business.

Why should I pay into a tax system which has just given the top brass of say Tesco a £5k plus tax cut because they get paid so much yet the business they run cannot allegedly pay employee's enough without some of my taxes also subsidising their workforce? The Tesco etc business model is broken - it doesn't work and they should pay up or close.
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Been saying it for years, our social system has been hijacked by the Tories to subsidise the rich and alienate the poor.
 
west didsblue said:
Your shtick is getting boring.
Anyone who can’t see it is a moron but no description of what “it” is.
And you describe my post as meaningless nonsense!
Not really arsed about any further discussion with you. Your next post will probably be a stupid gif next like usual.

By the way I saw your abusive post earlier before it disappeared which is another reason I don’t give a fuck what you have to say.
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My irritation with you is easily explained.

Starmer's hand was forced in commissioning that report, and when it landed he didn't like the conclusions, so it buried it and it went mostly unreported.

Had he done otherwise, that was his opportunity to "resolve" the issues in the party, but he didn't

That is simply a fact.

The discussion then should centre as to why, but no, we never get there, because you dodge and swerve, deny simple facts, constantly bang on about Starmer's attempts to resolve issues in the party, when all the evidence shows he's doing no such thing, evidence you never address. because that would divert you from your favourite pastime of castigating the left for making the party unelectable, by dint of their quest for ideological purity.

You're either a bad faith Tory actor shit stirring for fun, a new Labour third wayer, or an idiot, I don't give a fuck either way.

As to my deleted post, I deleted it as I thought better of it, or to be more precise better of you. I was clearly wrong.
 
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He's Raheemed it again.

Open goal to get these Bastards. His Green policy automatically gives the Tory bastards their "Vote Labour to put your taxes up" narrative to the lazy and gullible.
 
blueparrot said:
How many people in this country are on working and child tax / universal credits and the benefits that go with them ? Pretty sure it’s much more than those on unemployment benefits.
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Government figures...

Universal Credit:

The number of people on Universal Credit in employment has remained at around 2.3 million since 10 December 2020. The employment rate has increased for all people on Universal Credit to 42% on 9 December 2021 from 39% on 10 December 2020 as the total number of people on Universal Credit has decreased.

Unemployment Benefits:

The unadjusted claimant count was 1.53 million in July 2022, which was 10,500 less than the month before but 300,000 more than in March 2020. Following the start of the pandemic, the claimant count more than doubled while the rise in unemployment was much smaller.
 
Bigga said:
It seems to me there's some deep revisionism going on with your PoV.

In 2017, Labour came within thousands of votes of becoming the governing party. Why, because Corbyn's policies were allowed to go directly to the people as the MSM didn't take him seriously.

I can't recall Corbyn being falsely accused of antisemitism back then, which became one of the weapons used in the MSM in the next election run.

I'm pretty sure you remember the MSM differences in presentation of Corbyn in favour of the utterly oafish Johnson!!

So, yes, you're wrong about people not reading manifestos. You saw what I saw in 2017. So, when the MSM presented utter lies over Corbyn in the next election attempt, what do you think the result would have been if they were forced to retract the lies, publically?

Do you not think peoples views would have changed?
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2019 GE was campaigned on one policy with the buffoon spouting it at every opportunity

The lack of a consistent alternative policy did not help - not an alternative manifesto but an alternative single policy with a consistent message
 
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