How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Bodicoteblue said:
You don’t hear so much these days from those who were delighted at the ‘political elite’ getting a bloody nose from the brexiteers, do you?
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That elite were never Remain - they were Leave because of what they wanted to do to the UK and as of now everyone can see how they have progressed those plans
 
bluethrunthru said:
what an odd statement - since 2016 we have had people in politics, in the press, in day to day life and even on here all denying immigration was nothing to do or only a tiny part of why they voted Leave. Are you saying now that after realising all the economic things they denied would happen and now happening they feel a winning position is not to confirm they are anti-immigration to distance themselves from the economic fuck-ups?
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A lot of people on here are highly political and are on other political threads, the media at the time made Brexit an emotional vote, which is why large amounts of non voters did vote, and the emotion they used was immigation, like it or not Farage was very very successful, blaming Brexit for our economic disaster is also wrong, our COVID policies are what is at fault, you can not give everybody a free 2 years holiday without cost, although they are trying to hide the cost behind a proxy war with Russia.
 
salfordbluetrue said:
A lot of people on here are highly political and are on other political threads, the media at the time made Brexit an emotional vote, which is why large amounts of non voters did vote, and the emotion they used was immigation, like it or not Farage was very very successful, blaming Brexit for our economic disaster is also wrong, our COVID policies are what is at fault, you can not give everybody a free 2 years holiday without cost, although they are trying to hide the cost behind a proxy war with Russia.
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1. You're correct, Brexit was an emotional vote. That's how Leave won (leaving aside the illegalities). Any logical analysis would have meant an overwhelming victory for Remain.

2. Brexit has without doubt harmed our economy, how could it not? Are there other factors? Yes, COVID was damaging but everyone did not have a 2 year free holiday and I would agree it could have been handled better. Other countries who adopted a similar stance have seen their economies bounce back much stronger than ours, Brexit perhaps.

3. Ukraine has caused massive issues but again other countries aren't suffering to the extent that we are and yes it is being used as a distraction.

Whilst our latest Tory Government would somehow have us believe that the past 12 years were nothing to do with them it is inescapable to everyone other than the Tory cultists that much of the responsibility for our current woes lies with the Party that brought us austerity, Brexit and the COVID response. They have now re-invented themselves again and based on the evidence so far appear to be accelerating the process of flushing the vast majority of the people of this country down the shitter.

Happy fucking days !
 
bluethrunthru said:
That elite were never Remain - they were Leave because of what they wanted to do to the UK and as of now everyone can see how they have progressed those plans
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That’s what I was thinking.
As the economic damage became undeniable, as the immigration promises became untenable, the last tool in the box for so many brexiteers was this strange idea of upsetting the status quo and bloodying the nose of the establishment.
As that argument has fallen apart there must surely be some recognition of what is actually occurring before their very eyes.
I should have been less specific and simply asked why we never hear any defence of brexit at all now.
 
Bodicoteblue said:
That’s what I was thinking.
As the economic damage became undeniable, as the immigration promises became untenable, the last tool in the box for so many brexiteers was this strange idea of upsetting the status quo and bloodying the nose of the establishment.
As that argument has fallen apart there must surely be some recognition of what is actually occurring before their very eyes.
I should have been less specific and simply asked why we never hear any defence of brexit at all now.
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Because it's now a fait accompli, no discussion, no looking back, done and dusted, it's irreversible.

To defend it is to justify it, but it needs no justification, it just is and that's it.
 
Brexit is the Best thing since sliced bread. Are you all enjoying the price of bread with the US/UN sanctions?
 
The perfect fumble said:
Because it's now a fait accompli, no discussion, no looking back, done and dusted, it's irreversible.

To defend it is to justify it, but it needs no justification, it just is and that's it.
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Too true.
It just strikes me as odd that those who insisted that we need brexit cannot now even acknowledge its existence, never mind defend it.
 
Bodicoteblue said:
Too true.
It just strikes me as odd that those who insisted that we need brexit cannot now even acknowledge its existence, never mind defend it.
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If you can't defend it, and leavers can't, why try when they don't need to.

Our political masters have closed off all discussion about Brexit itself, they're all in damage limitation mode now, though they don't call it that.

The central question of Brexit is never raised, it'll take a generation before that can be asked.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Because it's now a fait accompli, no discussion, no looking back, done and dusted, it's irreversible.

To defend it is to justify it, but it needs no justification, it just is and that's it.
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Its far from done and dusted though is it, parts are still being negotiated and argued over. It may even destroy the UK,and we will spend years trying to find a brexit that works better than the shambles we’ve been given. So there is discussion that will effect peoples lives for many years still to be had.
My opinion is the only way way brexit can possibly work and stop hurting people will be to rejoin the single market, one day we’ll get a sensible government that realises that.
If you voted for it just be honest you fucked up we all do sometimes.
 
blueparrot said:
Its far from done and dusted though is it, parts are still being negotiated and argued over. It may even destroy the UK,and we will spend years trying to find a brexit that works better than the shambles we’ve been given. So there is discussion that will effect peoples lives for many years still to be had.
My opinion is the only way way brexit can possibly work and stop hurting people will be to rejoin the single market, one day we’ll get a sensible government that realises that.
If you voted for it just be honest you fucked up we all do sometimes.
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And so it begins: Brexin!!!
Let's do it.
 
blueparrot said:
Its far from done and dusted though is it, parts are still being negotiated and argued over. It may even destroy the UK,and we will spend years trying to find a brexit that works better than the shambles we’ve been given. So there is discussion that will effect peoples lives for many years still to be had.
My opinion is the only way way brexit can possibly work and stop hurting people will be to rejoin the single market, one day we’ll get a sensible government that realises that.
If you voted for it just be honest you fucked up we all do sometimes.
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Is it possible to rejoin the single market,? I don’t think they will have us back. The Brexit we’ve got is a disaster no money for the NHS no money for anyone except politicians and the super rich
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
Is it possible to rejoin the single market,? I don’t think they will have us back. The Brexit we’ve got is a disaster no money for the NHS no money for anyone except politicians and the super rich
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We are into another issue as well here:
"The UK with its corporate tax haven network is by far the world's greatest enabler of corporate tax avoidance and has single-handedly done the most to break down the global corporate tax system, accounting for over a third of the world's corporate tax avoidance risks.

"That's four times more than the next greatest contributor of corporate tax avoidance risks, the Netherlands, which accounts for less than 7%."

There is now an estimated 21 trillion pounds hiding in the British territories avoiding tax, while government ministers, some of whom are involved, declare essential services 'unaffordable'.


www.theguardian.com

UK and territories are 'greatest enabler' of tax avoidance, study says

UK’s ‘tax haven network’ ranked among top 10 in corporate tax haven index
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
the blue panther said:
And so it begins: Brexin!!!
Let's do it.
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we will not re-join for many years. We are not the country we were as an offer when we originally joined and we are not the country we were when we are members. Also the conditions for joining - euro - fom etc - will make it a hard sell to anyone below say 40 years old
 
That’s what I don’t understand we have no money It’s all gone there’s nothing left in the pot for anything and they are borrowing to give tax breaks to the rich.
Truss says there are more give away’s to come it’s a gamble that generations will have to repay the debt
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
Is it possible to rejoin the single market,? I don’t think they will have us back. The Brexit we’ve got is a disaster no money for the NHS no money for anyone except politicians and the super rich
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They might if it means we contribute according to our GDP (which will cost us less as other EU countries overtake us) but have no say in legislation other than adopting it. If the backbench Tories really are going to allow the ERG cabinet to tear up workers rights and environmental protection and cause earthquakes then the benefits of all that EU red tape might well become again an electoral issue.
 
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