Corruption in English football?

[Deleted member 77198]

If I were being cynical here I might look at the odds against a City victory in these games...

Good point.

The odds at the weekend were strange, bookies must have lost a fortune with those 3-1 and 16/5 United-win odds. Bet they thought they were going to dupe a load of money out of loads of people putting on a United win, with City winning or drawing the game.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Power cut at Molineux means no VAR for the Wolves-Liverpool FA Cup replay (just like the end of first match).

Mariner gives the first yellow to a Wolves player despite Liverpool having more fouls (with more not even called), of which 3 or 4 are from Milner alone.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

I think the question is missing the point. The premier league aren't the masters of this...

There's a web of corruption of many different competing interests - bookies, agents, owners execs, refs and players probably more.

There isn't one tune that everyone is dancing to

Absolutely. People assume one malevolent force pushing one aim. Football is so awash with cash there are angles for lots of groups and individuals, with various levers open to them.

Some of it too is soft power or influence as opposed to illegality

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

Good thread OP.

Its about time we (football fans) started to make more noise about this. It seems corrupt as fuck and there should be more transparency in officiating games.

- mic up the refs
- post match debrief by the officials regarding contentious decisions

Simple to implement and would lift the veil of secrecy

 

[SebastianBlue]

Absolutely. People assume one malevolent force pushing one aim. Football is so awash with cash there are angles for lots of groups and individuals, with various levers open to them.

Some of it too is soft power or influence as opposed to illegality

Again, Premier League is a catch all for various interested entities, as there is a character limit on poll questions and “is football corrupt” is far too broad a question (that would get near 100% affirming responses, thus isn’t a particularly useful poll).

I have written a few lengthy posts over the last few days regarding how corruption usually actually develops and sustains—it is usually a much looser, but still interconnected network of bad decisions that then gain so much momentum that it becomes systematic and the various people involved (often not even aware of other people also trapped in cycles of poor decisions contributing to the overall corruption) see no way out, so they just continue it. And, over time, it becomes the norm, it builds further as new people are recruited in to the scheme as a matter of necessity, until it usually finally collapses under the sheer weight of the fraud and is exposed.

 

[MadchesterCity]

Can a mod please share the results of the poll.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Again, Premier League is a catch all for various interested entities, as there is a character limit on poll questions and “is football corrupt” is far too broad a question (that would get near 100% affirming responses, thus isn’t a particularly useful poll).

I have written a few lengthy posts over the last few days regarding how corruption usually actually develops and sustains—it is usually a much looser, but still interconnected network of bad decisions that then gain so much momentum that it becomes systematic and the various people involved (often not even aware of other people also trapped in cycles of poor decisions contributing to the overall corruption) see no way out, so they just continue it. And, over time, it becomes the norm, it builds further as new people are recruited in to the scheme as a matter of necessity, until it usually finally collapses under the sheer weight of the fraud and is exposed.

Wasn’t commenting on your poll title mate! Personally think the thread title is the correct way to describe it tho (if I was)

 

[SebastianBlue]

Wasn’t commenting on your poll title mate! Personally think the thread title is the correct way to describe it tho (if I was)

Yeah, I thought about that, as well… but then that would also likely have most answering yes just because of the dodgy lower league goings on!

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

It is usually a much looser, but still interconnected network of bad decisions that then gain so much momentum that the become systematic and the various people involved (often not even aware of other people also trapped in cycles of poor decisions contributing to the overall corruption) see no way out, so they just continue it. And, over time, it builds, until it usually finally collapses under the sheer weight of the fraud and is exposed.

Precisely - Often people who get caught up in corruption start with something small like a minor rules infringement, and someone finds out, then they get asked for a favour for perhaps a small financial reward, and then the rewards on offer get bigger, and then it becomes all about preserving reputation and saving face... and before you know it you are the head of FIFA and owned by the Mafia.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Yeah, I thought about that, as well… but then that would also likely have most answering yes just because of the dodgy lower league goings on!

Earlier in the thread there’s an exchange between me and another poster to the effect that they accept that football is bent, but not English football :-)

 

[SebastianBlue]

Earlier in the thread there’s an exchange between me and another poster to the effect that they accept that football is bent, but not English football :-)

That’s exactly the sort of conversations I have had, except it’s mostly “yeah, the Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, and German top divisions are bent but not the Premier League—it is squeaky clean!”.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

That’s exactly the sort of conversations I have had, except it’s mostly “yeah, the Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, and German top divisions are bent but not the Premier League—it is squeaky clean!”.

Yup. The rationale appears to be there’s no tangible evidence to suggest English football is….but if you don’t go looking for it and that keeps everyone earning that’s not surprising

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Yup. The rationale appears to be there’s no tangible evidence to suggest English football is….but if you don’t go looking for it and that keeps everyone earning that’s not surprising

A case in point. Renowned pundit responding to Mark Halsey’s public (now deleted!) comments. Did anyone look into into prima facie first hand evidence of potentially corrupt practices…….

 

[East Level 2]

Favourable cup draws have been debated for years. There have been some VERY strange cup draws down the years. The Carabao cup draw were us, the Rag's and DIpper's all avoided each other in the quarter final draw springs to mind.

Wasn't there a season when Arsenal, sponsored by Emirates, were drawn against two non-league teams in the FA Cup which was also sponsored by Emirates?

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

A case in point. Renowned pundit responding to Mark Halsey’s public (now deleted!) comments. Did anyone look into into prima facie first hand evidence of potentially corrupt practices…….View attachment 66317

The fact that Halsey's comments on changing a match report were significant for us because it meant Sergio could be retrospectively banned and miss the Derby cannot be understated.

 

[oxopop]

Billions of pounds in the prem globally. Is there corruption, Collusion influencing, blackmail ? You would have to be involved or pretty fucking naive to think there isn`t.

 

[mexico1970]

I'd be astonished if someone thought that there wasn't any corruption, where there is money there are thieves.

 

[bluetonium]

For me it's the murk and silence around the issue of corruption that stands out

Football is a big money business. Has been for decades. That undoubtedly attracts people who want to profit from it. Attempts must have been made to divert the course of a game, decisions, free kicks, corners and the big stuff like the actual result and red cards.

But, beyond the premier leagues general statement on endeavouring to stand against corruption, both the premier league and fa are so incredibly silent on this issue that they'd have you believe it is not a problem and they never encounter it.

If that it so, what practices do they have in place to check? They won't say. Do they have a whistleblower programme? Have the successfully thwarted attempts on the past? Do they talk about new threats and precautions?

At the end of the day it's an organisation that governs and effectively audits itself. Its inevitable that at some point somebody within that circle has stood to personally profit from a situation. Actually if you look into the FA's history it's a damning fact that it happened repeatedly from the 19th century, and people in those positions now all know each other very, very well. It's likely that at least on one occasion they went through with it in the premier league era too.

This is before we even look at the evidence on the pitch, the off decisions, quick rule changes, lack of var TV screens in certain circumstances. Or the frankly morally bankrupt comments from scudamore a few years back about it being their job to ensure a new winner every few years. Competitiveness yes absolutely. But winners? How are you going to actually do that if a team or selected teams are consistently better than each other? Was it a policy when United, arsenal and Chelsea were the winners year after year?

But let's not just look at the English leagues. Italy is know for it, others too, and if our league is supposedly the best and most money generating in the world, surely we'd be a target too? Look at uefa changing the rules on how money is split, so even if Liverpool or United fail to qualify for Europe for a decade, they still get payments from uefa from their competition profits because of their 'historical importance' to their competitions. The same ones they tried to jump ship and abandon for a bigger offer in the super league, by the way. These guys are money men, approach them with a way to make more money that requires somebody to be leant on or cut in to turn a blind eye, it's not a problem if the risk is acceptable and the profit worthwhile.


Managing the game is the term I believe, and I also believe there are many fingers in the pie. Not just the referees, it's a strategy from the top. I also believe that much of the anger an opposition to City has been precisely because our rise means one of the jolly fat pigs loses out

 

[Tubes26]

Of course. EVERYONE has their price, whether it be financial, reputational or threat of harm to oneself or family; literally hundreds of ways an individual can be 'bought'.

The goalkeeper in question has made more than one than one basic error under little or no pressure which has ended up with the ball in the net. I'm not saying for one moment these are indisputable examples of corruption, but surely you can see how it could appear suspicious?

Watch the goal Janmat scored against him... Rooted to the line for some reason and acts like the ball was kicked at 110mph when it literally trickled past him... Fixed match, major players all from the same agency..

I can normally crack a smile at the notion of draw balls being shoved in the microwave, and I believe in coincidence, but in three domestic cup draws we get Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal?

It's funny idea because we're invested in it... But it's a real possibility..

The league cup balls for the draw were cubes until ~2018... Did anyone notice that? We'll believe anything....And a magician wears huge sleeves... Nothing to see here...

They probably wouldn't have changed it if Souness didn't give the game away that time live on tv..

 

[HypnoticBlue]

For me it's the murk and silence around the issue of corruption that stands out

Football is a big money business. Has been for decades. That undoubtedly attracts people who want to profit from it. Attempts must have been made to divert the course of a game, decisions, free kicks, corners and the big stuff like the actual result and red cards.

But, beyond the premier leagues general statement on endeavouring to stand against corruption, both the premier league and fa are so incredibly silent on this issue that they'd have you believe it is not a problem and they never encounter it.

If that it so, what practices do they have in place to check? They won't say. Do they have a whistleblower programme? Have the successfully thwarted attempts on the past? Do they talk about new threats and precautions?

At the end of the day it's an organisation that governs and effectively audits itself. Its inevitable that at some point somebody within that circle has stood to personally profit from a situation. Actually if you look into the FA's history it's a damning fact that it happened repeatedly from the 19th century, and people in those positions now all know each other very, very well. It's likely that at least on one occasion they went through with it in the premier league era too.

This is before we even look at the evidence on the pitch, the off decisions, quick rule changes, lack of var TV screens in certain circumstances. Or the frankly morally bankrupt comments from scudamore a few years back about it being their job to ensure a new winner every few years. Competitiveness yes absolutely. But winners? How are you going to actually do that if a team or selected teams are consistently better than each other? Was it a policy when United, arsenal and Chelsea were the winners year after year?

But let's not just look at the English leagues. Italy is know for it, others too, and if our league is supposedly the best and most money generating in the world, surely we'd be a target too? Look at uefa changing the rules on how money is split, so even if Liverpool or United fail to qualify for Europe for a decade, they still get payments from uefa from their competition profits because of their 'historical importance' to their competitions. The same ones they tried to jump ship and abandon for a bigger offer in the super league, by the way. These guys are money men, approach them with a way to make more money that requires somebody to be leant on or cut in to turn a blind eye, it's not a problem if the risk is acceptable and the profit worthwhile.


Managing the game is the term I believe, and I also believe there are many fingers in the pie. Not just the referees, it's a strategy from the top. I also believe that much of the anger an opposition to City has been precisely because our rise means one of the jolly fat pigs loses out

The silence is deafening.
It's like pretending that people don't take social dugs in your nightclub, but having a drug bin, then letting the local drug dealer in with his cronies whilst you get a nice little kick back from it, then at your licence renewal telling the panel that you don't have drugs in your venue.
Bent as f***