PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

It's all supposition to be honest as nobody here actually know what the charges relate to specifically. You are right about the domino effect on a lot of the charges though (IMHO).

One thing is abundantly clear, the burden of proof is so high for the Premier League, I fail to see how the panel reaches it.

They would need to physically have former players waiting outside in the corridor to give evidence against us.

And if they had that, we would have known it in the four years we have dragged it out and it would never have gone this far.

It's a final Hail Mary, yet still predicated on non-compliance and when we are comfortable showing the supporting documents.

BDO will stand with us, as will all our sponsors and investors.

And that's before we discuss in essence, the temerity to put Khaldoon in the dock and him supposedly complicit in mass financial fraud.

The damage to his reputation alone and the boards he sits on would necessitate him to personally seek legal recourse.

It's a can of worms.
 
I'm trying not to be naïve while also trying to square the seriousness of the claims with the seriousness of the implications for related parties if demonstrated to be true.

Edit: Silverlake would presumably also say they were lied to, but for the levels of deceit we're talking about it would be need complicit parties up and down the club bordering on a criminal scale, right? And frankly those accountants not doing their job properly? It's not something people would be breezily emailing to one another? Or am I missing something?
IF we are found guilty on basic fraud we are utterly %%%ed in my opinion, the fall out will destroy the club and ownership.
 
I take it there will be no banners aimed at the Premier League yet until we are sure they are handling this unfairly?

I was think banners like "Independent Regulator NOW Please!"

I mean they have tried to charge City and came after the club more than they would dare any of their darling clubs.

But I suppose it is better to take the view that we can't argue with what they think they have, until they show us their hand, I guess. Reeks of UEFA all over again though.
 
I realise that you’re getting bombarded with questions, so apologies for adding another! Is it really plausible that we would’ve been able to continually deceive/mislead a firm as credible as BDO over such a long period of time? Would it be pretty damaging to their reputation if this was all going on directly under their noses?

Speaking only from personal opinion, but with a now thankfully completed background in auditing, of course it is possible and plausible, especially if the senior audit team in charge are not changing regularly…

Of course it’s a deeply serious allegation, hence my earlier comment that the list of charges is effectively alleging the RUSADA affair of football, hence the ‘comfort’ that the arbitration panel will take this incredibly seriously and won’t be voting along partisan lines of which team scarf is in their 3rd summer cottage, but also raised the deep concern that a defeat for City would not lead to a £1m fine and a suspended 3 point deduction…
 
All the rediculous uniformed tripe is getting rolled out by the FFP experts in my circle. My favourite is people who tell me we only got away with it at CAS because it was time barred and therefore we are certainly guilty with the PL. Usually at that point its time to walk away but this week i've been grumpy as fuck and in my error tried to educate people.

Fact is they don't want to listen and generally have no interest if City are innocent or not, they will always just brand us as cheats and quote fat mick from salfords twitter page as proof we did it. Maybe thats what the PL are going after all along, tarnish our reputation regardless of the outcome.
Right. There is no winning for us. The damage is done. Under the assumption we are going to all follow the club as always regardless of the verdict, this is already over, and we already lost.
 
Charging the club is one thing, actually proving these allegations is another. The people who run City are not stupid. The four year investigation is a Red Herring, designed to give the PL the excuse and justification they are so desperately looking for to tarnish their reputation.
Yes. Worth bearing in mind we are no more guilty of anything today than we were last Wednesday. There's a danger that our concern as fans causes us to forget this fact. PL charges are not charges in the legal sense, they are just accusations from an unregulated body.
 
One thing is abundantly clear, the burden of proof is so high for the Premier League, I fail to see how the panel reaches it.

They would need to physically have former players waiting outside in the corridor to give evidence against us.

And if they had that, we would have known it in the four years we have dragged it out and it would never have gone this far.

It's a final Hail Mary, yet still predicated on non-compliance and when we are comfortable showing the supporting documents.

BDO will stand with us, as will all our sponsors and investors.

And that's before we discuss in essence, the temerity to put Khaldoon in the dock and him supposedly complicit in mass financial fraud.

The damage to his reputation alone and the boards he sits on would necessitate him to personally seek legal recourse.

It's a can of worms.
The seriousness for both parties is enormous, I don't think a lot of people on here realise that.
 
Column B is how many tickets they sold and Column A is how many attended. 2 different things and not 'inflated figures' unless they lied about sales, which I doubt. They have a 100,000 waiting list for season tickets.
Remember years ago talking to one of our sales reps at work - the night before he'd used the companies tickets for Old Trafford and gone to the Rags v Charlton in the cup... the official attendance was around 60,000 but he said if it was half that he'd have been surprised!

There's also the documentary from years ago - was it World in Action? - where they exposed match tickets for Old Trafford being sold over the counter in the cafe (Pete the Greeks?) on the corner outside the Swamp... the investigation concluded, in not so many words, that the club themselves were releasing these tickets... why sell them for face value when you can get some nobhead down the road to flog them for 3 or 4 times that and share the profits... funnily enough, nothing happened and the story was buried!
 
Hypothetically, say ADUG had rerouted money through Etihad/Etisalat etc. Is there anything wrong with that from an accounting perspective? I can see how it would fall foul of FFP and related parties rules, but are accounts false if the money still came to the club via the sponsor?
 
I would imagine it's hacked emails, and the Mancini on the Sheiks payroll and the way the Etihad payments were made and by whom.

The other charges seem dependent upon the above and if we have evidence to show the two serious offences are false then we will be clear of all.

Think the Mancini one (and related parties as a consequence) are going to be very hard to explain away if the content of the leaked emails are true.
 
Right. There is no winning for us. The damage is done. Under the assumption we are going to all follow the club as always regardless of the verdict, this is already over, and we already lost.
He's not wrong though, I've already accepted that were fuckesd.
 
I’m not one to usually post on forums, in fact this is actually the first time, but with everything that has transpired over the past few days coupled with the flagrant arrogance of football ‘fans’ i’ve felt compelled to respond.

I won’t go down the road of emphasising the misery it brought me at school, although relevant it’s hardly exclusive, but what I will focus on are the sheer levels of hypocrisy that are emerging, hypocrisy that we all knew existed but couldn’t truly demonstrate because one club was state owned (originally) and another was bankrolled by a horrendous group of incestuous yank capitalists.

During the past decade Manchester City have produced the best football ever witnessed, scored the most goals and essentially made a mockery of an English pyramid headed by two teams in Red, both dominant in respective decades due to the majority of investment and all the perks that it brings - better players, trophies, more fans - similar to ourselves although we still can’t sell out our stadium allegedly (heard some ball bag on the radio the other night claim we only get 30,000) but we’ve never been truly allowed to appreciate it.

Certainly amongst ourselves we have rejoiced: QPR, Villa, Leicester, Liverpool, United etc but there’s never been a moment where we’ve not had to suffer the ignominy of a loutish fat tosser down the boozer who so flippantly decries our achievements as being tinged with falsities, arab money, financial tampering, inflated sponsors (words he can’t even spell let alone understand) or; when faced with some facts that he struggles to dispute, barks treble or twenty times in our face like a petulant child, remnants of last night’s dinner still smeared around their mouth, before slinking off with their fellow minions, fortified by the fact that we’re yet to win the champions league.

Dealing with people like this is allegedly part and parcel of the sport, working class ribbing and ‘friendly banter’ to be expected amongst rival fans… except that it’s not, it’s tiresome, absorbing and ultimately annoying to the extent that it has literally sucks the fun out of it all, a bitterness echoing loudly in the streets, on social media, on whatsapp, in the boozers and at work, fully grown men and women focusing their jealously through petty barbs, goading people into responding to try and deflect their own pettiness and insecurities.

I’ve maintained for a long time that there are no truly decent rags and I’d like to think that over the past few days that any lingering doubts people have had to the contrary have been extinguished. Having to listen to people try to explain something to me that they know even less about than I do is tiring enough but when you’re also faced with a bombardment of populist media shills and ex-players, let alone the very organisation that your football has done so much enhance the brand of, then I could be forgiven for giving up and just accepting the inevitable.

But then the final piece of the jigsaw fell into place and all the ‘coincidences’, the collusion and corruption finally jumped right out and smacked me in the face… Qatari investment. All the false sentiments and morality, the things we’d known for so long that were simple mechanisms to try to mask their spite finally shone through. I mean, we should have known it was coming when the media tried to condition the public into believing that it was because of City and Newcastle that clubs like Liverpool and United had no choice but to seek state investment, as though they were forced into it.

Make no mistake the timing of Monday’s announcement, the delay to the Independent Regulator, the two week window it potentially gives the Qatari’s to meet the Glazer’s deadline, displace the Governments dependence on one State’s finances by shifting it another - may sound a tad too conspiratorial but can anyone truly pretend they don’t agree?

If the above goes through, which it most probably will, all the murmurs of human rights violations will disappear, vanish as though they never existed and the truth will present itself because all this has ever been about is no longer being the best… like the most popular child at school suddenly losing his grip on his peers, the only way to try to regain that is through manipulation and lies.

Personally I believe we’ll prove our innocence but on the back of this it’ll instil a whole new level of tribalism and toxicity and so we must never forget the way we’ve been treated. Never pretend that this was okay and never lose sight of the fact that we were there when we were shit! MCFC. x
You should post more often. A very good analogy of the shit system and moreso the self pitying of all things "red".
 
Right. There is no winning for us. The damage is done. Under the assumption we are going to all follow the club as always regardless of the verdict, this is already over, and we already lost.
Does feel that way and in this world where we are bombarded with social media, news etc, thats just magnified hugely. The only good thing that can come out of this now is we are cleared, but even then City as fans, no one cares, we will continue to face the same attitudes, hostility and shite from other people and the media.
 
One thing is abundantly clear, the burden of proof is so high for the Premier League, I fail to see how the panel reaches it.

They would need to physically have former players waiting outside in the corridor to give evidence against us.

And if they had that, we would have known it in the four years we have dragged it out and it would never have gone this far.

It's a final Hail Mary, yet still predicated on non-compliance and when we are comfortable showing the supporting documents.

BDO will stand with us, as will all our sponsors and investors.

And that's before we discuss in essence, the temerity to put Khaldoon in the dock and him supposedly complicit in mass financial fraud.

The damage to his reputation alone and the boards he sits on would necessitate him to personally seek legal recourse.

It's a can of worms.

It’s us a can of worms but these history clubs don’t give a shit! They’ve paid the media last 10 years to write lies continually!

So all this now all this shit coming our way and how long it takes they don’t care they’ll be loving it..

It’s the American way take out the threat the competition!
 
Hypothetically, say ADUG had rerouted money through Etihad/Etisalat etc. Is there anything wrong with that from an accounting perspective? I can see how it would fall foul of FFP and related parties rules, but are accounts false if the money still came to the club via the sponsor?
You mean those companies paid into ADUG and then ADUG transferred that to the club. I don't think that is breaking rules. Sheikh Mansour was the owner, ADUG were the parent company. As long as that money isn't disguised equity funding(Sheikh Mansour's money) of course. Which is what the Der Spiegel articles alleged.
 
IF we are found guilty on basic fraud we are utterly %%%ed in my opinion, the fall out will destroy the club and ownership.
That's where I land as well. If there is the evidence to stand these charges up the evidence will have to be pretty overwhelming, and the consequences are almost incomprehensible: much, much bigger than City.
 
It’s us a can of worms but these history clubs don’t give a shit! They’ve paid the media last 10 years to write lies continually!

So all this now all this shit coming our way and how long it takes they don’t care they’ll be loving it..

It’s the American way take out the threat the competition!
BUT if we have done nothing wrong we have the opportunity not only to clear our name but come out of it stronger, unified and more fired up than ever.
 

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