PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

paska said:
Al Jazira Club were never a sponsor of Manchester City Football Club though. Al Jazira and Man City can be related parties all they like, but it doesn’t make Man City responsible for their expenses.

The CFG clubs are a lot closer relations than Al Jazira is, but it doesn’t mean that Vidosić, Cushing, Muscat, Itthuralde, Michel, Lobera, Buckingham, Bould, Kisnorbo or Corini are our expenses as a club!
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It does if they’re actually our expenses and we were facilitating and approving the payments. It’s hard to argue it wasn’t the former if people do the latter and that’s essentially what the two charges are - us not declaring the full details of a manager contract.

I’m sure we have a defence for it and as PB said, I don’t think the punishment for it would be much if we don’t.
 
Blue_Lightsaber said:
With friends like those, do you really need enemies?

Things are so tribal now.. whether we realize it or not we've got a civil war brewing in our midst.. City fans vs City haters.

You can't talk, associate, and definitely not date someone across the lines. The lines have been drawn!
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Loooool :-) Mate, I've been having it with them for years. They've been mostly quiet, but seem to pop up every time there's ANOTHER FFP investigation. The difference this time is they believe they'll benefit on the pitch, as well as off it.

Winning means fuck all to the Rags unless they've got someone's snout to rub in it. They can go get fucked, the lot of em!
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Those two posts are very closely connected I reckon. A quiet word from Sheikh Mohammed and it all goes away. We'll see where the power really is.
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Well worth a visit to GOV.UK, UAE investment in the UK, Mubadala, Khaldoon signing off those deals with plenty more billions in the pipeline.
 
meeesh said:
Even though that makes them look a bigger bunch of dickheads than they already are ?
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Agreed, but it may stop us from maybe suing them for slander against us and the cost which could be enormous for us, would they really want to risk it "if" they are on a very sticky wicket?
 
marco said:
yes,we can appeal on certain grounds only for another hearing but high court is not an option im afraid
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Is that correct, Marco? I have heard different from a lawyer friend who believes a precedent could be set, despite the official line, which is fundamentally not legal to enforce from the premier league…

This all points towards massive reform regardless, and sadly a breakaway which was mooted last year!
 
Kippax1973 said:
This is more or less what I posted 200 pages back,, I asked if it was plausible that on the 23rd when we answer our charges, the PL look at it and think,, right fuck this if we loose were fucked

So the statement goes" we have looked at MCFC evidence and we are happy there is no case to answer, but we have given MCFC stern warnings about cooperation in the future "

In other words" were going nowhere near that
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Anything is possible, however that would be extremely unlikely.

It could be that if we have ‘irrefutable evidence’ that we have held back and it means that the PL no longer want to pursue, they could cancel at any time and not a month after raising charges on a 4 year investigation.

Put it to the back of your mind as after tomorrow when Pep speaks (where ha could say something relevant or not) I doubt despite numerous mentions and column inches nothing of value will come out for months if not years.
 
Kinkys Left Foot said:
I remember the discussions taking place on here prior to the UEFA CAS case covering the fact that UEFA too had some of the best european legal representatives and that there was no way they wouldn't have some defacto smoking gun evidence that would counter anything we had to offer in defence.

There was no possibility all they had was a photocopy of a spliced email from 2010 and 2 other insignificant emails taken from Der Spiegels website to attempt to justify the overwhelming fraud they were alleging and which their investigative chamber and then secondary chamber of lawyers had taken many months to consider and deciding we were bang to rights.

I remember the media announcing our guilt to the world on the announcement of the charges and the sanctions and the many discussions about what cheats we are and how dare we offer up a statement to the fact we were going to appeal the decision of these fine upstanding european gentlemens' considered legal decision.

We oohed and aargghed about what possible evidence it could be that would be our downfall amid the handwringing on here discussing how the whole board should resign and it was Sorianos fault or the chairmans.

Lo and behold when it came time to show the hand of aces we all dreaded, they laughably stood there with their micro penis in hand for everyone to see.

I was incredulous when I read the full decision in how any outstanding legal mind would have thought with what they had how it could have gone any other way. The actual hubris involved to think that an independent judges panel could come to a guilty decision based on what was offered as evidence to corroborate financial malfeasance on a scale they alleged. Yet most decisions were seemingly not unanimous!

Yet here we are again, asking the same questions, querying the jurisdiction, evidential burden, quality of evidence, counter evidence and presupposing the evidential smoking gun, what it is, what have we missed etc etc.

The difference is the PL have seen the same case play out, they have been privvy to the evidence offered to try to prove disguised owner investment and more importantly our responses and defence evidence to those accusations. They would be seemingly stupid to go down the same route and expect a different outcome. So we are to suffer the double jeopardy of not only having come to an agreement previously with UEFA and took a pinch for matters up to 2014, but to face similar charges for matter bothe before that point and after it.

There is no doubt if City are found guilty the punishment will be exacting for the alleged rule breaches some of which are considerable and would require director involvement in dishonesty and bad faith to such a degree that BDO have been mislead and duped so that the financial statements are deliberately falsified. I would imagine Khaldoun is absolutely seething and HHSM will be none too pleased either. These charges are calling them cheats and liars. Make no bones about this the gloves are off, they want us hobbled permanently and this has FSG, Kronke and the Glazers American fingerprints all over it imho.

So what have they done differently to UEFA then?
A whole battery of stacked charges in relation to matters going right back to the takeover. Mancinis wages, player wages, image rights payments, Fordham consolidation of club admin expenses etc., early etisalat sponsorship payments and more. So rather than one big rule breach, seeking death by a thousand cuts. I think they believe if they can show many multiple small rule infringements and these will add up to show a code of conduct whereby they can allege we were not negligent but actively indifferent and in some cases proactive in rule breaking with little or no concern of consequence and that because of that we are worthy of being guilty of the larger allegations of malfeasance over lengthy periods of time even though the amounts may not be large by consideration of turnover.

I must admit the amount of non-compliance allegations were somewhat of a surprise as I was sure I had read City were cooperating with the PL on this investigation and CItys statement allude to this with "...particularly given the extensive engagement and vast amount of detailed materials that the EPL has been provided with". Again I surmise that the PL have little evidential "hot potatoes" and have been on a few fishing trips for documentation CIty have obviously said at some point you have what you need and are not getting any more.

These matters are of course subjective without substantial documentary evidence in support of them and Bird & Bird would have to give compelling argument to satisfy the heavier weight of expected evidence on the "Balance of probability" for such unprecedented serious allegations.

There can be no doubt that this process is incredibly damaging to Citys brand and clearly the PL know this and are likely to seek a quick resolution if possible with some kind of plea bargain once the preliminaries have been dispensed with. I think Citys board have taken all the 'pinches" they are ever likely to take though.

Both teams of legal representatives leads are long standing Kings Counsel of great experience and it will be a duel worthy of any combative arena, unfortunately it is likely we will only have some hearsay comment as to how it panned out unless there are any real "gotcha" moments, let us hope if there are they are Lord Pannicks or even our more junior counsel if they are the nominated combatant.

No doubt the press and media will be lobbying hard for the proceedings to be more "public" crying about public interest and the like. I suspect however there will be many months of legal wrangling to come. Maybe jurisdiction will be discussed despite the rules for dispute resolution lying with an independent panel. However we are unlikely to know what's going on in the meantime as we are ever the mushrooms in these affairs, kept in the dark and fed on bullshit.

I have no idea how this will all pan out. I support the club's position on this until there is evidence produced that erodes that position whereby such a position would be untenable. The consequences of a guilty verdict in the end are inconceivable and I refuse to consider them at the moment.

I believe the clubs directors are not the crooks made out in these charges and that any decisions made regarding sponsorship or investment has always been considered with the best interests of CIty in mind. Of course we may have pushed the boundaries on occasion particularly as the drawbridge was closing, it is their job to do so. I cannot believe any of the management or directors deliberately falsified records or manipulated contractual obligations with falsified owner investment to cook the books. I am currently confident we will be exonerated apart from the usual non compliance bollocks.

Rui Pinto has a lot to answer for and I believe he's about to get what's coming to him. He's no more a whistleblower than I am, he's a petty extortionist who blackmailed Doyen Sports and was caught red handed. He then used the deposit of millions of Mb of data, including our emails, into the hands of tossers like Der Spiegel to try to exonerate himself and make out hes some sort of modern day Julian Assange - i'd throw the key away and let the little twat rot.
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Just catching up and I know I offer little to the forum, but it’s posts like this - and numerous posts over the last few days I read when our backs are well and truly up against the wall - that bring a lump to my throat and sometimes a tear to my eye.

I for one am never prouder to be blue than in times like this.
 
Fuzzy80 said:
Anything is possible, however that would be extremely unlikely.

It could be that if we have ‘irrefutable evidence’ that we have held back and it means that the PL no longer want to pursue, they could cancel at any time and not a month after raising charges on a 4 year investigation.

Put it to the back of your mind as after tomorrow when Pep speaks (where ha could say something relevant or not) I doubt despite numerous mentions and column inches nothing of value will come out for months if not years.
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Yeh fair 1 mate,, but I would love it if pep says at the start " 1 word about it and you can get fucked I'm outa here and going on the piss and smoking a big fat stogie"
 
AdamMarrett said:
mancitysquare.com

Manchester City charged for financial breaches by the Premier League – A fans point of view.

Manchester City have been charged by the Premier League for something or other, and the fans have reacted in their typical City way.
mancitysquare.com mancitysquare.com

Wrote this about a fans point of view.

Fuck em all I say.
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Interesting read. Just a point.
As Gary James has established with the archival patience of the historian that he is, City were one of the big clubs in the land and in any case the biggest club in Manchester until the Second World War. We were then unquestionably one of the big clubs from the mid-sixties through to the beginning of the eighties, both in terms of support and trophies.
It is only this constant skewing of football history around the founding of the Premier League and its particular history within the much longer and richer one of association football as it emerged out of the late industrial revolution in the second half of the nineteenth century that distorts the historical facts of the case.
Oh, we might notice in passing that two F.A. Cups and six league titles, along with regular attendance passing 50,000, would appear to make us a fairly big club these days.
 
Question for me is what does Pep say tomorrow.

For me, I would be happy if he reiterates that the club has provided evidence and has done nothing wrong. I can even see him doubling down on what PL are saying and raising the bar.

The PL accuse our Directors of falsifying accounts, wow!! That is a huge claim and one I do not think can be true.

Whereas we would like him to go on the rampage, I think that is not our best option.

I’m unsure if this is true but I think it will be, that even if City did all of what was said, inflated sponsors, paid those off book payments, we would still have spent less then United in that time.

If it is I would love that narrative out there, as people currently think our spending was so much more than everyone else. The average fan put into that perspective does not care where money came from and consider fair or not fair.
 
Bill the Blue said:
Just stepping back and weighing things up here..

We were taken over in 2008 and had investment pumped into our club to enable us to complete with the likes of the rags, dippers, tarquins and chavs who between them had enjoyed a bit of a carve up with regards to winning leagues and cups and in turn benefitting from the millions of £'s CL qualification had to offer.

In what then appeared to be a fit of panic, new PL rules were quickly being assembled to ensure we wouldn't be to gate-crash the closed shop party.

However, because we were professional, clever and smart, we managed to get into the castle just before the drawbridge closed.

Obviously, the usual suspects were well pissed off..

From thereon in, not only did we build a team capable of competing with the chosen few, we assembled a management infrastructure that blew the old guard completely away.

The old ways where owners such as the Glazers, Kronke's and FSG's systematically syphoned off £100's of millions out of their clubs was being shown up for what it was..'pure greed'..!

The Glazers have taken out £1.1 billion pounds out of the rags since 2005 and have still not repaid anything anywhere near substantial off the £500 million pounds debt they originally dumped on the club.

Not a fkin peep about about this from the cnuts in the media btw..

Bingo, constantly whinging about the unfairness of it all whilst wasting untold millions on cart horses, this after spending £130 million pounds plus on a goalie and centre back. The fkin hypocrite..

City's new owners were not only investing in the team and management infanstructure, they were investing in East Manchester, generating 100's of local jobs, building a state of the art training complex and extending and improving stadium facilities..

All along, during this time you had the usual suspects looking at what we were doing with complete disgust..

City's owners were showing the rest of the PL and wider watching world how a football club should be run..

The watching world however were not impressed. They were far from happy that our club had 'elbowed it's way', albeit legitimately, onto the top table.

The G14 were getting rather pissed off too it seemed.

City soon faced charges of cheating and corruption, threats of CL expulsion and heavy fines.

Yet another obstacle for us to climb over.

Well guess what, we faced these charges head on and not only were we cleared of all the shit levied at us, we once again showed up the entitled establishment for what it was, a jumped up kangaroo court, backed by jealous, greedy owners of clubs who over the years had creamed off untold £millions without a thought for anyone else..

Over all this time, City went about their business on the field, playing mesmerising football, breaking record after record and winning stuff..

Let's not forget, Silva, Toure, Zabletta, Hart, Lescott, Clichy, Aguero, Nazri, Dzeko, Barry and the like were not the established world stars of the day.

I remember the media piss taking by one and all when Kaka turned us down, what was it ? Oh yeah, "you might have the money but you haven't got the class or history"..

They soon changed their tune however, when from 8 points behind with 6 games to play in 2012, we won the league in scenes that will never be bettered on SKYsports TV..

It was written in the stars that Ferguson and his rags team would win the PL that year.

Let's not forget, it would have been the rags 5th PL title in 6 years, btw, not a fkin peep out of the media twats about how unfair the rags dominance was back then, not a fkin squeak..

Ferguson had already been humiliated at the swamp 6-1 and had lost the return game at the Etihad in the most one sided1-0 you will ever had seen.

His team shit themselves that night and never crossed the halfway line, let alone had a shot on our goal..

Sergio's goal killed him, his team and the PL on that day.

At that precise time, I can safely say that I had never been happier in life..

Behind the scenes though, the chosen few were boiling with rage.

Not only had City beaten them on the pitch, they had fkin smashed them off it too..

The powers that be then wheeled in VAR and sold it as the tool to end all doubt, no more grey areas, dodgy decisions, unfair calls and confusion.

It's been and still is a clusterfuck of epic proportions, Rashford's 'goal' was a fkin bent, blatent cheating, scandalous fkin decision..

Fast forward to today, the chavs ownership has changed and yet another yank has appeared on the scene.


The chavs have managed to write off £1.5 billion pounds worth of loans Abramovich had saddled them with and they have just gone and spunked in the region of £600 million on new players.

Not a fkin peep out of the twats at SKY or the usual media twats about FFP, dodgy dealings or unfairness of it all, not a fkin peep..

The rags and dippers are now being hawked around all and sundry and my guess is it's because their yank owners have finally realised that we in the UK are not the US.

We don't run our football clubs as franchises where there is no relegation or promotion and you get to cream the money off year in year out..

You invest, build, nurture, manage and plan. You then compete on a level playing field and work hard to win stuff..

Apparently not any more you fkin don't..!

In yet another roll of the dice, the PL have delved back in time to 2009 to rummage through our accounts to see what they can now stick us with..

Our accounts that btw have been meticulously pawed over time and again prior to being signed off as true and correct back in the day..

Never mind that though, over 100 charges apparently, all the usual suspects are now giddy as fcuk, baying for us to be hit with relegation, title stripping, expulsion, points deduction... All of these they all scream..

Well guess what you bunch of bent fcukers, we've beaten you on and off the pitch, we've beaten you at the CAS and I have 100% faith that we'll beat you again..

Our owners have remained firm time and again and have shown their commitment to City by fighting all these allegations off for years and I'm certain that they are not going to throw the towel in now.

We are a £4billion pound giant of the game with the highest turnover in world football..

That's why I have complete trust in the guys that run our club..

That's why I know we're not going to go away into the darkness lightly..

That's why I'm confident that we are going to straighten this out once and for all..

However, I don't want us just to finally clear our name, I want my pound of flesh..

I sincerely hope that we blow these fcukers out of the water and if that means we sue their arses off in court after this is done and the PL collapses into itself then that'll be a good start as far as I'm concerned..


We have been waiting for this day to finally arrive, we will be fully prepared and I'm convinced that we'll prevail..!
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You would have been given a first if I was still marking papers; concise, reinforcing facts with superb reference and leaving no room for debate

A post that deserves revisiting when this is done and dusted!
 
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer said:
Is that correct, Marco? I have heard different from a lawyer friend who believes a precedent could be set, despite the official line, which is fundamentally not legal to enforce from the premier league…

This all points towards massive reform regardless, and sadly a breakaway which was mooted last year!
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i hope your correct, i havent heard or read anything, dont forget at this stage nothing ilegal has been found so its like breaking the rules of a private members club 'they make the rules and enforce whatever punishment they see fit' and i cant see how we can argue, lets hope the evidence we have knocks them for six
 
Fuzzy80 said:
Question for me is what does Pep say tomorrow.

For me, I would be happy if he reiterates that the club has provided evidence and has done nothing wrong. I can even see him doubling down on what PL are saying and raising the bar.

The PL accuse our Directors of falsifying accounts, wow!! That is a huge claim and one I do not think can be true.

Whereas we would like him to go on the rampage, I think that is not our best option.

I’m unsure if this is true but I think it will be, that even if City did all of what was said, inflated sponsors, paid those off book payments, we would still have spent less then United in that time.

If it is I would love that narrative out there, as people currently think our spending was so much more than everyone else. The average fan put into that perspective does not care where money came from and consider fair or not fair.
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For me he just need to commit himself to us that'll be enough for me.
 
itisrising said:
I'm sorry but I totally disagree here. You can't downplay the significance of industrial accounting fraud; criminal proceedings could/should be undertaken here if found guilty against those who did so. We all disagree with the rules but you cannot try to circumvent them to such an extent.
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What? Industrial (scale) accounting fraud? The implication you appear to have been persuaded of is that we should be heavily punished for that, and can't downplay it. Industrial scale accounting fraud which went unseen for over 9 or maybe even 13 years.

You put your diatribe on in response to a very positive post and, without specifically saying so, the clear implication from you is that relegation is appropriate for City in those circumstances. And prosecutions. Hanging and flogging as well? This isn't even a criminal trial.

I'd have expected such comments from a rag or a dipper, and of course, those clubs have never been guilty of anything, have they!?

As a blue - I assume, as you have 4000+ posts on here - I'm surprised you jumped in as you did, instead of holding your tongue until someone finds us guilty of anything. Why fan the flames? Were you writing similarly when UEFA were dragging us over the coals? I can't be arsed checking through your posts, but it looks like you've made up your mind based on Sky and the newspapers who've convicted us already.

Have a drink, or a lie down - chill, ffs!
 
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