How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

NatalieM008 said:
I was born in Portugal and I'm living in Spain now. I've also been a couple of years studying in France.
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Not sure if you are referring to Spain/France or Portugal or all 3.

Having setup a financing business and worked and lived in Portugal for 20 years now, I can tell you with some personal insight that the fiscal support and monetary stability that the ECB and the Euro has provided Portugal has been instrumental to its increase in standards of living and economic growth.

I meet and travel abroad with many of the directors of the major banks in Portugal as well as some people from the Bank of Portugal and to a person they all acknowledge the improvements to the country as a whole that EU membership has brought them. Portugal’s problem is a legacy from its recent communist/socialist past which means it has a bloated public sector and a dis functional judicial system.

I also personally don’t know any Portuguese people from all walks of life that would advocate going back to the way things were before they joined the EU.
 
AlgarveBlu said:
Not sure if you are referring to Spain/France or Portugal or all 3.

Having setup a financing business and worked and lived in Portugal for 20 years now, I can tell you with some personal insight that the fiscal support and monetary stability that the ECB and the Euro has provided Portugal has been instrumental to its increase in standards of living and economic growth.

I meet and travel abroad with many of the directors of the major banks in Portugal as well as some people from the Bank of Portugal and to a person they all acknowledge the improvements to the country as a whole that EU membership has brought them. Portugal’s problem is a legacy from its recent communist/socialist past which means it has a bloated public sector and a dis functional judicial system.

I also personally don’t know any Portuguese people from all walks of life that would advocate going back to the way things were before they joined the EU.
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I can say ditto for Greece and Cyprus. Anyone who has traveled within the EU since Maastricht has witnessed incredible change.

All EU countries are struggling with the aftermath of the pandemic and the effects of the war, but things are nowhere near as bleak as they were at the time of the financial crisis, and there are no serious moves anywhere for countries to follow the UK’s lead. The EU is a long-term project and it will take years for more wealth to be shared around, but it is happening and will continue to happen.
 
AlgarveBlu said:
Not sure if you are referring to Spain/France or Portugal or all 3.

Having setup a financing business and worked and lived in Portugal for 20 years now, I can tell you with some personal insight that the fiscal support and monetary stability that the ECB and the Euro has provided Portugal has been instrumental to its increase in standards of living and economic growth.

I meet and travel abroad with many of the directors of the major banks in Portugal as well as some people from the Bank of Portugal and to a person they all acknowledge the improvements to the country as a whole that EU membership has brought them. Portugal’s problem is a legacy from its recent communist/socialist past which means it has a bloated public sector and a dis functional judicial system.

I also personally don’t know any Portuguese people from all walks of life that would advocate going back to the way things were before they joined the EU.
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Yes, Portugal is better now than before the EU, that's unarguable, but it still being worse than the UK.
 
blueparrot said:
As was the UK, and now we have left , the UK is declining again.
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May be declining, but the UK will not fall. You'll recover and you'll get stronger. You have an enviable industry and great exportation business. I live in a country where the principal industry is the tourism, so you can imagine how bad is that for our economy...
 
NatalieM008 said:
I work in a bank, it's the only job I've had. I've been in different banks, but always doing the same work.
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Bit of a disparity depending on actual role, but if you were a bank teller you wouldn't be better off in London. A friend of mine used to earn that sort of salary and spent half of it on renting room from a live in landlord.
 
NatalieM008 said:
I live in Spain now but I was born in Portugal
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The Iberian peninsula has been struggling for a long time now with high rates of youth unemployment, but that doesn’t mean you can generalise across a whole continent. Portugal and Spain both experienced dictatorships fewer than 50 years ago and utilised tourism to boost their fragile, agricultural economies. That takes time to catch up with already highly industrialised and, if I may say so, richer countries. I left the UK over 20 years ago and I see absolutely no evidence of the EU having lower growth rates than the UK or being poorer. The only places in the EU that are poor are the ones that have been neglected for various reasons by select governments. I’ve lived in Spain and there are plenty of extremely rich areas (Madrid) and plenty not so (Extremadura).
Try looking at the rest of the EU before holding Spain and Portugal up as shining examples of why the trade bloc isn’t working. It works.
 
Innsbruckblue said:
The Iberian peninsula has been struggling for a long time now with high rates of youth unemployment, but that doesn’t mean you can generalise across a whole continent. Portugal and Spain both experienced dictatorships fewer than 50 years ago and utilised tourism to boost their fragile, agricultural economies. That takes time to catch up with already highly industrialised and, if I may say so, richer countries. I left the UK over 20 years ago and I see absolutely no evidence of the EU having lower growth rates than the UK or being poorer. The only places in the EU that are poor are the ones that have been neglected for various reasons by select governments. I’ve lived in Spain and there are plenty of extremely rich areas (Madrid) and plenty not so (Extremadura).
Try looking at the rest of the EU before holding Spain and Portugal up as shining examples of why the trade bloc isn’t working. It works.
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Thanks for the history class.

What makes you think that I'm focusing just in Portugal and Spain? Obviously I'm not an expert, but I like politics and I try to be updated on what's happening in Europe. The whole Europe. I'm so sorry I'm not the kind of person that travels constantly around the world, but I think I have further knowledge than just what's happening in my country.
 
NatalieM008 said:
Thanks for the history class.

What makes you think that I'm focusing just in Portugal and Spain? Obviously I'm not an expert, but I like politics and I try to be updated on what's happening in Europe. The whole Europe. I'm so sorry I'm not the kind of person that travels constantly around the world, but I think I have further knowledge than just what's happening in my country.
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Gosh, it's another Metalbiker, able to get enough of world culture living in Gorton.
 
NatalieM008 said:
Thanks for the history class.

What makes you think that I'm focusing just in Portugal and Spain? Obviously I'm not an expert, but I like politics and I try to be updated on what's happening in Europe. The whole Europe. I'm so sorry I'm not the kind of person that travels constantly around the world, but I think I have further knowledge than just what's happening in my country.
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You said in your original second point that ‘the EU started to break down’ the very moment that the U.K. left. Do you have any evidence whatsoever for that statement? If anything, Brexit has shown the economic folly of leaving the EU, and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has only brought countries closer together. The populations of the respective Member States may have grievances with their own governments, but they’re not calling for their countries to leave the EU.
 
Gabriel said:
You said in your original second point that ‘the EU started to break down’ the very moment that the U.K. left. Do you have any evidence whatsoever for that statement? If anything, Brexit has shown the economic folly of leaving the EU, and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has only brought countries closer together. The populations of the respective Member States may have grievances with their own governments, but they’re not calling for their countries to leave the EU.
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I have the evidence that the EU was fairly stable until the UK left it, point where my country (and a lot more) announced that they were going to send more money to the EU. Curiously, in that moment, the Euro (I mean the currency) started to devalue. The prices also started to rise, and the rest is history.

About Russia's invasion, I just can say that only got worse all the situation, for all countries.

People that live in the UK just can see the bad impact that Brexit has had in their country, but the rest of Europeans also felt it; our economy got worse. Much worse. If you think that the EU countries didn't have any impact because the Brexit, you are absolutely wrong.
 
NatalieM008 said:
People that live in the UK just can see the bad impact that Brexit has had in their country, but the rest of Europeans also felt it; our economy got worse. Much worse. If you think that the EU countries didn't have any impact because the Brexit, you are absolutely wrong.
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Another reason why it was a completely shite idea. Membership of the EU mutually benefits all members.
 
NatalieM008 said:
I have the evidence that the EU was fairly stable until the UK left it, point where my country (and a lot more) announced that they were going to send more money to the EU. Curiously, in that moment, the Euro (I mean the currency) started to devalue. The prices also started to rise, and the rest is history.

About Russia's invasion, I just can say that only got worse all the situation, for all countries.

People that live in the UK just can see the bad impact that Brexit has had in their country, but the rest of Europeans also felt it; our economy got worse. Much worse. If you think that the EU countries didn't have any impact because the Brexit, you are absolutely wrong.
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It’s not falling apart though, is it?

Brexit was always going to have repercussions for everyone, especially as the U.K. was one of the Union’s larger economies. That is not the point, however. The point is whether it will be more damaging for the U.K. or for the EU, and on the evidence so far, it is and will be worse for the former. Much. If you care to read the international press, American. Chinese, Indian, Australian, they all acknowledge this point, which is one reason why investors are currently reluctant to invest in the U.K.
 
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