PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[kaz7]

It was a majority decision so 2-1

The one was uefa's man as well

 

[OB1]

BDO certainly won’t give a shit - it is the responsibility of the company being audited to provide such documentation to the auditor to allow a ‘true and fair’ view to be taken.

If the PL were able to produce some smoking gun documents that discredited the Annual Report of those years being charged, BDO would simply say ‘we never saw it, and ruled on what we did see’.

Do have any actual idea what you are talking about?

 

[BillyShears]

Given that the CFG do business in the US, I'd be astonished if the whole group don't have to abide by the Sarbanes Oxley act, which was brought in off the back of the Enron scandal

I believe that we do and I believe that there would be a US case to answer if it is proven we falsified our accounts, although @projectriver can confirm that.

 

[Iassel]

And Etihad?

Assuming the PL’s charge is that Etihad and City entered into a deal above ‘fair value’, there is still nothing for Etihad to take issue with - if Tesla approached City tomorrow and wanted to sponsor the stadium for £1bn a year, it’s City’s responsibility to ensure the deal is signed with a ‘fair value’….

And any findings published in a scenario where City win big would simply state ‘PL allege that deal with Etihad is entered into above fair value, this is found not proven’

 

[OB1]

I'm not convinced this comes down the mountain quickly. If it does then it speaks to a process which is flawed and not thorough enough by the independent panel, for the judgement to be reliable. Baring in mind it took the league 4 years to get here, I suspect it will take some time before we get to a judgement.

Honestly, I would much rather it happened quickly so it doesn't please me at all to say I think it'll take years. Frustrating as fuck to have this smear hang around for that long.

I'm not sure how they do this quickly given the number of charges and the potential implications that involve numerous third parties.

No ides how many people work d on this at the EPL but I do wondr if they have bitten off more than they can chew - I obviously hope so.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

On what do you base that conclusion?

Hopeful, then it all collapsed.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Assuming the PL’s charge is that Etihad and City entered into a deal above ‘fair value’, there is still nothing for Etihad to take issue with - if Tesla approached City tomorrow and wanted to sponsor the stadium for £1bn a year, it’s City’s responsibility to ensure the deal is signed with a ‘fair value’….

And any findings published in a scenario where City win big would simply state ‘PL allege that deal with Etihad is entered into above fair value, this is found not proven’

I think your assumption is probably wrong, tbf.

 

[OB1]

I believe that we do and I believe that there would be a US case to answer if it is proven we falsified our accounts, although @projectriver can confirm that.

Not all SOX provisions apply to private companies but not sure what the limitations are for private ones.

 

[BillyShears]

I'm not sure how they do this quickly given the number of charges and the potential implications that involve numerous third parties.

No ides how many people work d on this at the EPL but I do wondr if they have bitten off more than they can chew - I obviously hope so.

Bird & Bird have got their juniors working overtime, but then you'd expect them to be billing as many hours as is humanly possible.

I don't see a world in which an organisation as unified and powerful as City can lose to a fractured organisation like the PL where there is no single consensus as you have various different parties with competing interests all involved in all of the decision making processes.

 

[Legal Alien]

Finally, there is the actual reasoning for why we've been charged now and in the manner that we have. My personal opinion is that the charges are the punishment. The idea here is simply to inflict maximum reputational damage onto the club. I reckon after 4 years they've realised "we'll never be able to prove this case, but if we bin it we'll forever be panned for not trying" so they've gone with the big long charge sheet knowing that it is now the panel's job to find us innocent but the smears will stick in the meantime

I aree with this and posted similar last week.

Why has it taken 4 years after UEFA's case, especially armed with all the 'proof' that UEFA supposedly had, to charge us? The timing is all to do with the independent regulator and the PL being seen to doing something.

I'm wondering if this is just the PL posturing to the cartel.

They, and the cartel, especially the rags and dippers, know deep down that they can't prove their extraordinary allegations in a real court of law, so they release their case via the media knowing the shitstorm it will create will paint us in more of a negative light than usual.

They then win in the court of public opinion and hope the fallout will damage us as a club and result in us not winning titles, top players not signing until it all dies down and players and possibly Pep leaving.

I just can't believe that if the PL and UEFA knew that this was going on, especially since 2009, that they would've waited so long to charge us, so this is their last chance to hurt us as a club & appease the cartel.

 

[wolviedinho]

Everyone seems to be overlooking the massive missing piece in the jigsaw here, which is that we don't know who the investigators were.

The PL said they would appoint 2 experts in the field, but that's it AFAIK. Who those 2 are (ie are they actually serious people in the finance/legal world or are they career football bureaucrat) is going to have a massive bearing on how much we should treat these charges as serious vs. motivated by politics.

Alex Ferguson & Jurgen Klopp would be my guess.

 

[Maldeika]

I am just saying that Bayern and PSG are outliers when you compare sponsorship income to broadcast income. That is a fact.

Broadcast income is an indicator firstly of how popular a national league is, both nationally and internationally, and, secondly, how successful a particular club is in that league. I think that is undeniable.

Sponsorship income, you would think, depends to the largest extent on the exposure gained from that sponsorship, especially when talking about international sponsorship.

I am not saying anything untoward is going on, although I will say that a large proportion of Bayern's sponsorship income comes from shareholder companies. I have no idea if they are at market value.

They are at market value. Why shouldn't they be? It is independent companies with a minor share. Companies that do not have the single owner but are traded on the stock market. Their shareholders (a lot for sure no Bayern fans) for sure do not want to benefit the dividend shares of other companies. It just would not make any sense if it was different. You do not spend money as a business for charity or if somebody else would benefit...

And the main important or difference probably is that the partner and the club match together perfectly what e.g. would not be if (as an extreme example) bavarian brewer Paulaner would advertise with e.g. Manchester City or Dortmund.

Siemens e.g. has their headquarters exactly there where the cafe is in which the club was founded 120 years ago.

I know that Bayern for sure is an outlier in this - but you really can explain why they are. It has a lot to do with German economy and the structure of it. We still have a lot of manufacturers - many are top dogs in the World market, too.

The biggest German insurance company - Bayern sponsor. (head quarters Munich!)
One of the big German car manufacturers (or in the world) - Audi (a branch of Volkswagen) - Bayern sponsor (BMW tried to take over 2 or 3 years ago, but that did not work - now they took over the car sponsorship of Real!)
The biggest German telekommunication company - Telekom Bayern sponsor
The biggest German software company - SAP Bayern sponsor
Paulaner with the whole Schörghuber group behind is not the biggest brewery in Germany but I am pretty sure in Bavaria or Munich.
I could go on with that list. What Bayern for sure was smart in in the past decades was connecting to German politics and economy. And the rise from Bavaria itself from a farmer state to the biggest economical power state in Germany for sure helped with that, too. The companies very often have their headquarters or important branches in Bavaria (or atleast in Southern Germany) - not just Germany as a whole.

In a special way the FC Bayern benefits from being that top dog in Germany - not to only be one of the big dogs somewhere else. Right now not even the German national team really seems to be a big rival for the contracts as it was some years ago when e.g. in markets with two big contenders the rival that did not have a contract with the German FA tried to get one with Bayern the season before the World Cup to advertise with some German national team players for the World Cup...

 

[Centurions]

Assuming the PL’s charge is that Etihad and City entered into a deal above ‘fair value’, there is still nothing for Etihad to take issue with - if Tesla approached City tomorrow and wanted to sponsor the stadium for £1bn a year, it’s City’s responsibility to ensure the deal is signed with a ‘fair value’….

And any findings published in a scenario where City win big would simply state ‘PL allege that deal with Etihad is entered into above fair value, this is found not proven’

Perhaps I've not gone far enough back in the thread (and I've certainly not read every post) but both UEFA & the PL have signed off on the Etihad deal as being fair value and not related previously.

 

[BillyShears]

I aree with this and posted similar last week.

Why has it taken 4 years after UEFA's case, especially armed with all the 'proof' that UEFA supposedly had, to charge us? The timing is all to do with the independent regulator and the PL being seen to doing something.

I'm no lawyer, but the problem as I see it with building a case on illegally obtained, out of context, emails and documents, is that you are at some point going to need the other side to prove the veracity of the documents. The PL have spent 4 years demanding documents from City, which City say don't exist. How they are going to square that circle we will have to wait and see.

 

[OB1]

Bird & Bird have got their juniors working overtime, but then you'd expect them to be billing as many hours as is humanly possible.

I don't see a world in which an organisation as unified and powerful as City can lose to a fractured organisation like the PL where there is no single consensus as you have various different parties with competing interests all involved in all of the decision making processes.

I never tempt fate but I'd hope City's executives etc have been smart enough to ensure that the EPL cannot prove regulations have been broken.

 

[iwasthere1968]

If we get to a point where we are "cleared/ exonerated" on say 95% of the charges , and the remaining 5% are say administrative omissions . What is the feeling about some sort of statement from the panel about frivolous and time wasting charges.
What would be the likely hood of this being pursued as a reason for say costs being awarded to City?

 

[kaz7]

Good man. I agree with you. But i also agree with TH that it won't take long. It took CAS a few months from start to finish. I would expect this to be the same, unless an appeal can be made.

Not sure I buy into these theories about the timing of the charges, either. Not sure how this helps them against an IR, and I am able to accept that the mistakes in the statement were down to incompetence, rather than time pressure.

I think it's just a process (that shouldn't have been started before UEFA had finished their case imo) winding itself down to a conclusion that will make a lot of people unhappy. And I don't mean City fans.

A few months ? They have been building this case for four years , we have the right to take as long as it takes to form our defence , we are fools if we rush it

 

[BobKowalski]

No; in the event that we're found in breach, the audtors simply have to say that they audited our accounts based on the information given to them by us at the time.

An audit doesn't garantee that no fraud has taken place - eg Enron had their accounts audted like every other large Corp. There invariably has to be a large degree of 'in good faith' trust between the auditor and the client.

The auditors of Enron were found to be assisting the fraud and done for destroying documents if I recall.

 

[Dodge]

My take on the next few months:

February:
Media shitstorm continues to abate, Sky issue profit warning & Talksport cease trading.
City formally announce North Stand extension, log flume & Ferrari World - providing 2,000 Mancunian jobs & a £1billion boost to the local economy.
Rags sold by Glazer family to unknown buyer.
Pep extends to 2030.
The Viking Meat Shield extends to 2030.
Mendy fully acquitted & starts against Arsenal.
Dippers bought by the Glazer Family.
City 6 points clear.
Piss on a steady simmer.

March:
Government White Paper made public, independent regulator in place for 23/24.
Lord Bernstein is announced as the chair of the IR.
UK Gov announces UAE £100billion injection into the UK economy.
City issue writs to Premier League, Reach PLC, Miggy Deloony, MoS, Danny Mills, Mirror Group, Lou Macari's Chippy & Arsenal FanTV.
Rag buyer announced as a consortium of the Neville Family/MUST/Fred the Red/Terry Christian.
City 11 points clear.
Mendy voted City Player of the Month.
Tent Peg named as "Mr Big" in Amsterdam drug cartel trial.
Piss on a gentle rolling boil.

April:
City progress to the Semi-finals of CL & FA Cup.
Oliver Holt & Ian Cheeseman come to blows.
International arrest warrant issued for Edwood Woodwood after being accused of being Jimmy Saville's fixer.
PGMOL implicated in Far East betting scandal.
BBC Sport closes Salford office, relocating to Moss Side.
Klipperty resigns for personal reasons.
City move 18 points clear.
Piss on a violent rolling boil.

May:
City win FA Cup.
City win CL, beating RM in 7-0 thriller.
City win PL by record 30 point margin.
EPL drop all charges against City.
Nasty 9 write to City with a full apology, City say get fucked.
Piss boiling at an all time low as global supplies in crisis.

2023/2024:
City open the worlds biggest piss-boiling factory in Trafford Park, after levelling the previously moth-balled Hotel Football.
Climate change brings flooding leaving Liverpool submerged for eternity.

With Manchester now having a beach, it is announced as the 2023/2024 host for the World Beach Volleyball Series, running from June - August.

(OK - I might've gone a bit too far with the last bit).

 

[BobKowalski]

On the matter of timing, I struggle to see how an ‘investigation’ that lasted four years and ended up with a list of charges dating from the moment ADUG purchased City will be resolved by a three man panel in a matter of months.

If this can be cleared up in months then what the fuck were the PL doing for the last four years?