PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

That is the problem as I see it. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with related party transactions in themselves, provided you say in the accounts 'by the way guys, this is a related party transaction.' That then means the PL/UEFA can make adjustments to the amount actually received in their notional assessment of whether we cross the FFP threshold.

That isn't what's being alleged, as I understand it. What's being said is that our accounts do not provide a true and fair view of our financial circumstances. That is not an allegation that we've laid our cards on the table, but under PL rules the amount we are claiming as sponsorship should be adjusted because they think Etihad (say) have paid too much. This is an allegation that the accounts are bent.

For my part, I don't see how they can seriously argue that the sponsorship revenues were disguised equity investments if the sponsoring company's audited accounts marry up with the receiving company's audited accounts - which they do - UNLESS they have some first hand evidence, eg someone saying "I was in the meeting where Khaldoon told the accountants at Etihad and City that we needed to disguise the funding coming from Sheikh Mansour to make it look like commercial sponsorship."

If they have nothing more than the Der Spiegel emails, I think this is going nowhere.

There are other charges that do not relate to the general accusation that our accounts do not give a true and fair view of our financial circumstances, but this is the most serious of the charges we face, and i think it is no more likely to succeed than at CAS.
Related party transactions are defined in IAS24. None of our sponsorships fall within that definition, otherwise our accounts would have said so. There was some argument with UEFA in 2014 as to the interpretation of IAS24, but eventually UEFA accepted that we had no related party sponsorships.
The new PL rules talk about ‘associated’ sponsorships as a way of getting round IAS24. As far as I can see ‘associated’ means anything the PL want it to. It is aimed squarely at City. The PL cannot block such sponsorships but they can be referred to their expert panel and limited to a value the panel ascribed to it. The PL would lose any court challenge to this rule, which Pannick advises is illegal. We voted against these rules or abstained, I forget which.
 
Related party transactions are defined in IAS24. None of our sponsorships fall within that definition, otherwise our accounts would have said so. There was some argument with UEFA in 2014 as to the interpretation of IAS24, but eventually UEFA accepted that we had no related party sponsorships.
The new PL rules talk about ‘associated’ sponsorships as a way of getting round IAS24. As far as I can see ‘associated’ means anything the PL want it to. It is aimed squarely at City. The PL cannot block such sponsorships but they can be referred to their expert panel and limited to a value the panel ascribed to it. The PL would lose any court challenge to this rule, which Pannick advises is illegal. We voted against these rules or abstained, I forget which.
Did we not agree with UEFA not to increase the Etisalat & Aabar deals back in 2014 as part of the settlement?
 
Related party transactions are defined in IAS24. None of our sponsorships fall within that definition, otherwise our accounts would have said so. There was some argument with UEFA in 2014 as to the interpretation of IAS24, but eventually UEFA accepted that we had no related party sponsorships.
The new PL rules talk about ‘associated’ sponsorships as a way of getting round IAS24. As far as I can see ‘associated’ means anything the PL want it to. It is aimed squarely at City. The PL cannot block such sponsorships but they can be referred to their expert panel and limited to a value the panel ascribed to it. The PL would lose any court challenge to this rule, which Pannick advises is illegal. We voted against these rules or abstained, I forget which.

Agree with all of that. IIRC UEFA tried to argue that RPT meant something different for the purposes of FFP than it meant in other circles. It would certainly have been open to them to include an autonomous definition of related party transactions in the FFP rules, but what they actually did was cut and paste IAS 24 into their rules. So they were fucked on that.

As to the new rules, we cannot be (and have not been) charged by the PL for alleged breaches of regulations that weren't in place at the relevant time. So for instance they can allege that what we said was not a related party transaction in (say) the 13/14 season actually was - though that would be hard to prove because as you say what is a RPT is pretty well understood - but they cannot say that in season 13/14 we were in breach of a regulation that did not come in until 2021.

I think the new rules are essentially irrelevant to the charges we are currently facing.

Given that the PL's press release specifically stated that the charges included matters relating to related party transactions, I am genuinely perplexed as to what they are alleging.
 
That is the problem as I see it. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with related party transactions in themselves, provided you say in the accounts 'by the way guys, this is a related party transaction.' That then means the PL/UEFA can make adjustments to the amount actually received in their notional assessment of whether we cross the FFP threshold.

That isn't what's being alleged, as I understand it. What's being said is that our accounts do not provide a true and fair view of our financial circumstances. That is not an allegation that we've laid our cards on the table, but under PL rules the amount we are claiming as sponsorship should be adjusted because they think Etihad (say) have paid too much. This is an allegation that the accounts are bent.

For my part, I don't see how they can seriously argue that the sponsorship revenues were disguised equity investments if the sponsoring company's audited accounts marry up with the receiving company's audited accounts - which they do - UNLESS they have some first hand evidence that Etihad was in on this conspiracy as well, eg someone saying "I was in the meeting where Khaldoon told the accountants at Etihad and City that we needed to disguise the funding coming from Sheikh Mansour to make it look like commercial sponsorship."

If they have nothing more than the Der Spiegel emails, I think this is going nowhere.

There are other charges that do not relate to the general accusation that our accounts do not give a true and fair view of our financial circumstances, but this is the most serious of the charges we face, and i think it is no more likely to succeed than at CAS.

:) I really want to.

But a deal is a deal. A bit like sponsorship really.
 
It must matter when owner funding is limited. SM Direct to City is owner funding; SM To Etihad to City is legit sponsorship.
Yes that's a clear concept to help follow it but if I followed the arguments city were saying it wasn't even SM to the sponsor, it was HH someone different entirely.
 
The PL will attempt to prove the sponsorships were "disguised equity funding" by the owner and therefore invalid. So if our sponsors were invalid then all our accounts are implicitly invalid. That's the whole thing in a nutshell.
Why would equity funding, regardless where it comes from, be illegal and invalidate the accounts outwith of the poxy Premier League made up rules? Any company Director can put whatever funds they want into a business which could make up for losses, the Tax implication would be positive for the club as far as HMRC us concerned IE make a loss, don’t pay tax on profits.
 
Why would equity funding, regardless where it comes from, be illegal and invalidate the accounts outwith of the poxy Premier League made up rules? Any company Director can put whatever funds they want into a business which could make up for losses, the Tax implication would be positive for the club as far as HMRC us concerned IE make a loss, don’t pay tax on profits.
Equity funding isn't illegal.

Filing dodgy accounts is.
 
Ok thanks, but the club does have to provide supplementary financial information regularly: forecast information for one, and all the financial information needed annually to determine "true and fair" compliance with FFP which, of course, isn't in the annual accounts.

I think maybe my problem with all of this is that I can't imagine the PL would be stupid enough to set their charges at a level which makes it virtually impossible to get a favourable verdict, when I am pretty sure they could get the club on regulatory breaches. You could get any club on some regulatory breaches if you looked hard enough.

I am probably wrong. I often am :)

No need to reply. I don't want to burden all our legal experts.
I’m increasingly convinced this is simply about inflicting maximum reputational damage on the City “brand” to stunt its growth and devalue its achievements. I don’t think it’s about the PL achieving a verdict. It’s a clever strategy that ticks a number of boxes for the PL and its “most influential” clubs. The incoming Regulator should largely stop these behaviours in the future, but by then a lot of damage will have been inflicted. I would not be surprised to see these charges shelved at some point, and I can see City defending themselves vigorously until the issues are resolved - though I can’t realistically see them achieving any redress.
 
Equity funding isn't illegal.

Filing dodgy accounts is.
I don’t have your level of knowledge but I thought we were accused of disguising sponsorships. My interpretation is as long as it’s not money laundering if the revenue came from our legitimate sponsors who have ties to Abu Dhabi it wouldn’t matter to HMRC who stumped the cash up.

Anyway, we all know why this is happening, I wish the Sheik had just propped up the Club with a continuous 1.6b soft loan as the Chavs did, then write the debt off, Leicester did it as well the other week for way more money than we are being challenged on, circa 200m in their case.
 
I don’t have your level of knowledge but I thought we were accused of disguising sponsorships. My interpretation is as long as it’s not money laundering if the revenue came from our legitimate sponsors who have ties to Abu Dhabi it wouldn’t matter to HMRC who stumped the cash up.

Anyway, we all know why this is happening, I wish the Sheik had just propped up the Club with a continuous 1.6b soft loan as the Chavs did, then write the debt off, Leicester did it as well the other week for way more money than we are being challenged on, circa 200m in their case.

It wouldn't matter to HMRC, but it would matter to the PL.

What is being alleged is that the accounts we submitted to both the PL and HMRC are dishonest, because they disguise what (the PL say) is in reality equity funding as sponsorship.

It is not the underlying actions which are said to be illegal, it's the cover up.
 
That's a question I was pondering myself last night. On the one hand, if Etihad paid us £50m, and we recorded £50m revenue, then that's clearly not fraudulent, regardless of the source of Etihad's funds. But if SM gave us all or most of the money, then we'd have presumably broken FFP rules.

This is the point (the source of Etihad funding) that Stefan and me didn't agree on. He argued it didn't matter where the money came from but my view was that it did, as far as FFP was concerned.
What do you think about the fact the charges start in 2009 before the first PL monitoring period of 2013 season. Surely the first 4 years of charges can’t be related to any FFP rules?
 
The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) ruled that Manchester City did not disguise equity funding as sponsorship contributions, and therefore overturned the decision to ban the club from UEFA competitions.

So why the fuck are the PL pursuing this? Because they can and because they are being pressurised to do this by the 'Jealous Guys' running the so called history clubs.

If you can't beat em on the pitch, try and get your big bully mates to give em a kicking. In our case, they got UEFA and the PL to try and beat us up after school to teach us a lesson and clip our wings.

Bunch of bastards...
 
Right but the full value of Etihad / other stuff related to that sponsorship would have to go in the accounts and I assume we would have to declare the split as such and fair value test applied on the whole amount. It would pass fair value but we would be done for not declaring it
I don’t think fair value has anything to do with anything mate as Etihad isn’t a related party
 
What do you think about the fact the charges start in 2009 before the first PL monitoring period of 2013 season. Surely the first 4 years of charges can’t be related to any FFP rules?

It was always a requirement that we have to file accounts showing a true and fair view of the club's finances. The allegation is that we didn't do it even before FFP came in.
 
But if any alleged cover up only matters to the PL ( I.e. it is only an FFP matter) AND is not illegal then any such allegation is time barred prior to February 2017?

IF - and it is a huge if - we deliberately concealed (say) equity investment and dishonestly described it as sponsorship income, then the 6 year period only applies from the date that the PL had knowledge of our concealment. Given the investigation was opened very shortly after the Der Spiegel publication you can be fairly confident that is the relevant date. So to be time barred - IF we have done what is alleged - the charges would need to have been brought more than 6 years after the Der Spiegel publication.

They are well in time for what they allege. But if they cannot prove that we have filed dishonest accounts, the 6 year rule applies. That might for instance impact on the allegations about image rights.
 
One aspect we just don't is will MCFC park the legal bus or go on the attack ? There is plenty of historical evidence how competitors manavoured their employees into positions of influence to target rules at MCFC. Just read the comments from Gill ex MUFC
CEO as he takes up his new exciting role in UEFA. In hindsight its so obvious what his intentions are...

 

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