PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

domalino said:
What exactly do you want them to investigate about Liverpool's Standard Chartered sponsorship?

Every large bank in the world has been slapped for breaching anti money laundering controls. No one thinks that makes them unacceptable to do business with. Not the government, not the millions of customers they have and not the Premier League.

HSBC, NatWest, Santander, TSB, Metro Bank, Credit Suisse, Lloyds, Bank of Scotland, UBS, Goldman Sachs....Even title sponsor of the league Barclays.
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Not forgetting Jodrell, River, Gordon. Even food banks are providing laundering products these days.
 
terraloon said:
The image rights for me will be pivotal

Why City , in my opinion, have A problem is quite simply image rights form part of a player’s remuneration package and as such FA and PL rules state clearly that payment of any of a players remuneration can be paid by a third party. If the argument city put forward is that the third party is part of the City group then the FFP issue will kick in.

If and a big if the tribunal do indeed find in the PL favour re image rights the consequences of the Mancini contract issue elevates matters considerably.

As for the sponsorship thing UEFA as witnessed were under prepared and CAS drove a cart and horse through the case put before them.
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Correct me if I'm wrong though isn't the main charge we're facing namely that we deliberately mislead the PL over finances for a 9 year period? As I understand it, none of what you're commenting on suggests that they have deliberately mislead anyone, given the image rights company was literally changed to Manchester City football club (image rights) ltd. It suggests it's being plainly open rather than deliberately misleading surely?

Apologies if I've picked you up wrong. I appreciate your part in this discussion with PB.
 
Cobwebcat said:
Maybe but I don’t go along with CAS not being independent. I think they were all unbiased yet one guy thought we had done something wrong.
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I think what makes CAS independent is that you have a neutral chairman who both parties have to agree to, and then each side chooses one from a list. They are supposed to be impartial I suppose, but if you want income from being UEFA's go to guy, then you have to be "understanding" of their needs. I am not surprised pretty much everything was 2-1.

Now, the PL chooses its own Chairman I think and he appoints the other two on the panel (or I read somewhere the PL chooses someone and he chooses the three? Not sure). Anyway, is that better? I suppose the PL KC should be independent and so should his choices. But, on the other hand, the club can't contribute to any of the choices.

Make of it what you will. Seems to me it isn't truly independent if one party chooses all the panel.
 
moh said:
Speaking from experience most big multinational organisations are structured in an odd way on paper

I worked for one of the ten biggest organisations in the world and we had an entire team of people looking after things like this. Even taking advantage of currency fluctuations within the cash in the group of companies because of this kind of organisational design. It doesn’t necessarily point to wrongdoing.
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But that example refers to breaking the law.

City haven't been accused of breaking the law, we've been accused of breaking arbitrary rules relating to funding sources and disclosure.

For example a lot of posts are citing our accounts being audited as proof of innocence. The auditors were proving that our accounts were legal, they had no remit to check that they complied with specific PL rules.
 
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cheekybids said:
There is a bloke in jail for the crime. I believe like with the scouting database, the only chance of a prosecution for City is if it was the customers details I.e our personal data including DOB, credit card not “ no left foot & doesn’t track back “.
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Yes, I would have thought access to our own IP wouldn't have any personal information consequences. It wasn't a customer data base or something like that.
 
halfcenturyup said:
I think what makes CAS independent is that you have a neutral chairman who both parties have to agree to, and then each side chooses one from a list. They are supposed to be impartial I suppose, but if you want income from being UEFA's go to guy, then you have to be "understanding" of their needs. I am not surprised pretty much everything was 2-1.
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Exactly. In the case before the CAS, there was only one arbitrator who could have had any significant motive not to consider matters impartially. And it wasn't the chair of the panel or the guy that City appointed.

UEFA's choice as arbitrator was Prof. Ulrich Haas. He's a German academic but has his own law practice in Zurich as well, and he happens to be a regular choice of UEFA as arbitrator in the many cases they fight before the CAS. I'm told by specialist practitioners that, in most arbitration cases, arbitrators aren't especially tied to the party that nominates them as it could be an age before that party is back before the same tribunal. Not so with him, obviously.

I'd suggest, therefore, that Prof. Haas was an exception to the above general rule. I suspect he knew full well on which side his bread was buttered and didn't want to risk his cosy little arrangement with UEFA by voting against them. IIRC, his trainee (or equivalent) subsequently produced a jaw-droppingly inept but very revealing analysis of the case moaning that we'd got away with it.
 
petrusha said:
Exactly. In the case before the CAS, there was only one arbitrator who could have had any significant motive not to consider matters impartially. And it wasn't the chair of the panel or the guy that City appointed.

UEFA's choice as arbitrator was Prof. Ulrich Haas. He's a German academic but has his own law practice in Zurich as well, and he happens to be a regular choice of UEFA as arbitrator in the many cases they fight before the CAS. I'm told by specialist practitioners that, in most arbitration cases, arbitrators aren't especially tied to the party that nominates them as it could be an age before that party is back before the same tribunal. Not so with him, obviously.

I'd suggest, therefore, that Prof. Haas was an exception to the above general rule. I suspect he knew full well on which side his bread was buttered and didn't want to risk his cosy little arrangement with UEFA by voting against them. IIRC, his trainee (or equivalent) subsequently produced a jaw-droppingly inept but very revealing analysis of the case moaning that we'd got away with it.
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That's very interesting. Is the analysis of the case by IIRC available to view online?
 
Prophet of Doom said:
We are more than a decade too late to start moaning about how unfair FFP is or how the rules of the PL don’t seem right.

We are being charged because a load of hacked emails made it look like we were cheating and our rivals have campaigned to get us charged.
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I think the PL had no choice but to open an investigation once UEFA did. If I was them, though, I would have waited until after CAS to get some additional clarity. They rushed into it, I feel, and we are now seeing the consequences as the investigation plays out.
 
Bez said:
That's very interesting. Is the analysis of the case by IIRC available to view online?
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This one, I think:

The duty to cooperate - questions arising from the Man City v UEFA decision - LawInSport

This article is written by Björn Hessert, University of Zurich. By way of disclosure, Björn works as a research assistant for Prof. Dr. Ulrich Haas, who was one of the three CAS arbitrators in the Manchester City FC v UEFA proceedings. Björn would like to stress that he himself was not...
www.lawinsport.com www.lawinsport.com
 
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Centurions said:
Pinto (or whoever) hacked our email servers, not Liverpool's.

He also hacked Benfica's, Bayern Munich's(?), Doyen Sports (hence the Ronaldo alleged rape emails), a bank in the Cayman Isles, the Portuguese police team investigating him plus one of the judges in his case and many, many others.

That doesn't mean he's hacked the entire world.
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Do you think here is an email on our server saying “I think the Dippers have hacked our scouting database”
 
halfcenturyup said:
Yes, I would have thought access to our own IP wouldn't have any personal information consequences. It wasn't a customer data base or something like that.
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Are they not highly detailed scouting reports including personal details and character reports at the very least? They're not going to just be "he's really fast but can't defend for toffee" reports.
 
halfcenturyup said:
I think the PL had no choice but to open an investigation once UEFA did. If I was them, though, I would have waited until after CAS to get some additional clarity. They rushed into it, I feel, and we are now seeing the consequences as the investigation plays out.
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I agree that PL had to look into it once uefa raised it but I do think the PL actually feel rules have been broken. Following the arbitration case in 2021 city had to supply info (I assume they did) so the PL could quite easily have said they saw the documents and their is no case to answer.

That they have progressed this and the considerable risk of claims if they lose does make me feel this way. For clarity I am not saying city are guilty just that I don't think the PL would have rushed into it with what could be at stake.
 
Centurions said:
Pinto (or whoever) hacked our email servers, not Liverpool's.

He also hacked Benfica's, Bayern Munich's(?), Doyen Sports (hence the Ronaldo alleged rape emails), a bank in the Cayman Isles, the Portuguese police team investigating him plus one of the judges in his case and many, many others.

That doesn't mean he's hacked the entire world.
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So what was his reasoning behind those choices? Not exactly a random selection which makes it all the more likely that he was being paid to hack certain specific servers.
 
As already stated in last several pages, all banks are guilty of some money laundering, but no one on the scale of Standard Chartered, their fines outweigh all other banks and the business of money laundering is so profitable that fines of 1 billion dollars plus are but a fraction of the money made laundering for terrorist states and their various connected terrorist organisations.

Anyhow, all incidental as their connection to liverpool will never come under investigation by the football authorities as Standard Chartered are under constant investigation by the relevant financial authorities and this has no direct connection to who or what they sponsor. But, the fact the press completely ignore the actual connection is IMO still laughable as if they sponsored City I think we would see a different standard of reporting, as usual.
 
Centurions said:
Pinto (or whoever) hacked our email servers, not Liverpool's.

He also hacked Benfica's, Bayern Munich's(?), Doyen Sports (hence the Ronaldo alleged rape emails), a bank in the Cayman Isles, the Portuguese police team investigating him plus one of the judges in his case and many, many others.

That doesn't mean he's hacked the entir
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lancs blue said:
So what was his reasoning behind those choices? Not exactly a random selection which makes it all the more likely that he was being paid to hack certain specific servers.
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Paid to hack ours and threw the others in to make it look as if it was random??
 
lancs blue said:
So what was his reasoning behind those choices? Not exactly a random selection which makes it all the more likely that he was being paid to hack certain specific servers.
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He's a Sporting fan hence the Benfica hack I think, the rest, you'd have to ask him. He stole money from the bank and tried to extort Doyen Sports. Nobody know who else he tried that with and whether he was successful. Being a whistle-blower has it's perks apparently.
 
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