Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

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rabby said:
What did the Nazis ever do to be compared so unfavourably with the Tories.
Joking aside Lineker's comments are as unfortunate as they are stupid.Germanys foreign minister in the late 30s was Von Ribbentrop,first to be executed at the Nuremberg trials,a brief look through his tenure will show how ridiculous the comparison is.
What makes Lineker's contribution worse is that it will only exacerbate the problems and entrench already radical opinions on all sides of the debate and won't help a single refugee.
If he had offered up some constructive criticism and possibly some solutions to the issue he may have contributed positively.
A lesson Lineker and anyone else discussing day to day issues should learn is referencing the Nazis to aid your point loses you all credibility.
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And the rhetoric used by the Tories isn't going to further entrench hateful views? Linekar wasn't comparing to the actions of the Nazis, he was comparing the language used.
 
rabby said:
What did the Nazis ever do to be compared so unfavourably with the Tories.
Joking aside Lineker's comments are as unfortunate as they are stupid.Germanys foreign minister in the late 30s was Von Ribbentrop,first to be executed at the Nuremberg trials,a brief look through his tenure will show how ridiculous the comparison is.
What makes Lineker's contribution worse is that it will only exacerbate the problems and entrench already radical opinions on all sides of the debate and won't help a single refugee.
If he had offered up some constructive criticism and possibly some solutions to the issue he may have contributed positively.
A lesson Lineker and anyone else discussing day to day issues should learn is referencing the Nazis to aid your point loses you all credibility.
Click to expand...

I take it you didn’t actually read the tweet in question.
 
Gary Lineker called it absolutely right. The Tories are using language that is akin to 1930s Germany and he deserves commendation for calling it out. The Tories are chasing votes in appealing to the worst instincts of certain people.

Gary Lineker stood up to it, and I'm so glad he did. He has my eternal respect and gratitude, especially in the face of Braverman's disgusting rhetoric. Also, I appreciate his stance as an ethnic minority who has experienced increased racist abuse after Brexit.

Bad things happen when good people do nothing.

Well done Gary Lineker.
 
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KPXBLN said:
my point is that those figures don't give much of a picture of what's happening now or in the last 5 or 10 years. Since with reference to this legislation we're talking about asylum seekers specifically, a more useful measure would be the number accepted by each country per year in the last 5-10 years - better still, the number as compared to the size of the country's population.
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Why the last 5-10 years? Surely that is just cherry picking the best time period to suit your argument? The overall facts strongly support the UK not being racist or anti immigration (or Nazi). The fairest way to assess is, I think, to look at the current population and ask how many are immigrants now, not from 1 year, 10 years but now!
 
BobKowalski said:
I take it you didn’t actually read the tweet in question.
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Perhaps you haven't read the tweet or failed to understand my post.
As I suggested look up Ribbentrops language during his time in power,if you feel there is a comparison between what was said and done then and now you have no understanding of history.
 
BrianW said:
A lot of people think that 'patriotism' amounts to wrapping yourself in the Union Jack and arselicking the royals. It is a very simplistic view that chimes with the prejudices of right-wing, nationalistic jackasses.

Patriotism should be about wanting the best for your country and its people, and that's a much more complex and nuanced thing.

Generally speaking, when politicians start trying to stir your emotions with abstracts you should be wary. Maybe even extremely wary. Emotions linked to politics or governance are a very dangerous thing.
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An essential part of this iteration of patriotism though, is not just positivity about your own country but now requires a blind hatred of foreigners and the notion that to be foreign is to be anti-British.
But this is a reflection of the whole ethos of right-wing thinking.
’If you’re not with me, you’re against me’
Black or white - no shades of grey.
 
Blue and true said:
And the rhetoric used by the Tories isn't going to further entrench hateful views? Linekar wasn't comparing to the actions of the Nazis, he was comparing the language used.
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He should rise above it then and offer some constructive criticism.
He has merely fanned the flames of a already overheated situation.
I personally don't agree with the proposals,but we need rational debate and I'm sure there are many in the tory party who would hope for some common sense as well,but it won't happen when the extreme views are the only ones getting aired.
 
rabby said:
What did the Nazis ever do to be compared so unfavourably with the Tories.
Joking aside Lineker's comments are as unfortunate as they are stupid.Germanys foreign minister in the late 30s was Von Ribbentrop,first to be executed at the Nuremberg trials,a brief look through his tenure will show how ridiculous the comparison is.
What makes Lineker's contribution worse is that it will only exacerbate the problems and entrench already radical opinions on all sides of the debate and won't help a single refugee.
If he had offered up some constructive criticism and possibly some solutions to the issue he may have contributed positively.
A lesson Lineker and anyone else discussing day to day issues should learn is referencing the Nazis to aid your point loses you all credibility.
Click to expand...
Lineker is a virtue signallers poster boy. I saw a Jewish gentleman being interviewed on the news calling his comments 'crass'. We had all this nonsense during brexit where both sides accused the other of Nazi tactics. I totally agree that once you bring Nazis into your argument then you have drifted from rational debate into hysteria and have lost the argument.
 
Palerider said:
Lineker is a virtue signallers poster boy. I saw a Jewish gentleman being interviewed on the news calling his comments 'crass'. We had all this nonsense during brexit where both sides accused the other of Nazi tactics. I totally agree that once you bring Nazis into your argument then you have drifted from rational debate into hysteria and have lost the argument.
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You have only lost when its inappropriate . Doesnt matter who said it thats the wrong argument and a distraction.The question is was he right IMO yes he was
 
Bodicoteblue said:
An essential part of this iteration of patriotism though, is not just positivity about your own country but now requires a blind hatred of foreigners and the notion that to be foreign is to be anti-British.
But this is a reflection of the whole ethos of right-wing thinking.
’If you’re not with me, you’re against me’
Black or white - no shades of grey.
Click to expand...
Seriously? I live in a working class part of Manchester and also socialise with a group of Tory voters. I do not know a single person with the views you state. Not a single one. You have invented a stereotype in your own mind and decided to hate your own stereotype, Weird.
 
rabby said:
Perhaps you haven't read the tweet or failed to understand my post.
As I suggested look up Ribbentrops language during his time in power,if you feel there is a comparison between what was said and done then and now you have no understanding of history.
Click to expand...

Just Ribbentrop? Seems a somewhat selective comparison.

Lineker didn’t reference Nazis. He compared the language used in Germany during the ‘30s to the language used now. The self-serving justification under domestic law as opposed to International agreements we have signed up to. The strident messages - ‘this is the will of the people’, ‘protecting the people from invasion’, ‘patriotic duty’ - all messages used then and now.

This shit always ends in tears. Better that people point it out now, before the tears.
 
Palerider said:
Lineker is a virtue signallers poster boy. I saw a Jewish gentleman being interviewed on the news calling his comments 'crass'. We had all this nonsense during brexit where both sides accused the other of Nazi tactics. I totally agree that once you bring Nazis into your argument then you have drifted from rational debate into hysteria and have lost the argument.
Click to expand...

so that chap is at odds with those who represent him and seem to echo Linekers sentiments

 
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