Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

[kaz7]

Look at their defenders. They don’t care that this legislation isn’t going to solve the problem, they are more concerned about Lineker’s “mean” tweet.

Exactly that , the media obsession about his tweet and not the policy tells a story in itself , unfortunately he has handed them ammo to play the victims and whip their base up even more

 

[rabby]

Give them a chance. It’s only March, still a lot of this year to go.

You're a right scallywag bobby-boy.
Anyone might think you're just egging on the Doomsday scenario lunatics.

 

[kaz7]

£480 m sunak has just promised france to stop the boats , lol

 

[aguero93:20]

£480 m sunak has just promised france to stop the boats , lol

Even the rags could spend that money better.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Even the rags could spend that money better.

I think Levy would take that for Kane to be fair lol

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

Why can’t we build a centre here ?

 

[bluethrunthru]

£480 m sunak has just promised france to stop the boats , lol

so how much has Macron pulled their pants down for in total whilst it having no effect at all? The French probably can't believe their luck in that we keep electing thicko's

 

[bluethrunthru]

Even the rags could spend that money better.

or they could just get 100 more Weghorst's with it lol

 

[Vic]

If they believe his populist pronouncements then Yes. Look, Lineker is a social media influencer who aims to please his followers (virtually calling the tories Nazis seems to have given those followers a big hard on, no?) but if he talks utter garbage then he needs calling out otherwise people would believe him and that is dangerous. Is there a bit of truth in what he says, yes, but there is a little bit of truth in what covid vaccine deniers believe, or climate deniers believe. Basically there is not enough truth in what he says to merit the saying. It's manipulation.

Just what Goebbels would say.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

If they believe his populist pronouncements then Yes. Look, Lineker is a social media influencer who aims to please his followers (virtually calling the tories Nazis seems to have given those followers a big hard on, no?) but if he talks utter garbage then he needs calling out otherwise people would believe him and that is dangerous. Is there a bit of truth in what he says, yes, but there is a little bit of truth in what covid vaccine deniers believe, or climate deniers believe. Basically there is not enough truth in what he says to merit the saying. It's manipulation.

Lineker's actually slightly wrong on this.

The language and actions are far more reminiscent of the British government in the 1930's than the Nazis. Although there was no specific legislation in place, the Home Secretary had the ultimate power to grant or deny entry. And the policy of appeasement meant that they didn't want to upset Germany by criticising its treatment of the German Jews. But nor did they want to help those Jews either.

There were strict conditions attached to any who wanted to come here and it was made clear that (a) they would have to be funded either by existing citizens or organisations (so not a penny of state funds) and (b) they were expected to assimilate as quickly as possible (e,g. strongly 'advised' not to speak German in public).

The right-wing press (i.e. most of it) used similarly inflammatory language in the context of the time, and this hardened public opinion.

There were around 500,000 German Jews at the starts of the 1930's. They could have easily been absorbed into the UK, US, Australia, South Africa, South America and Mandatory Palestine. Hitler, initially, just to get rid of them from Germany, rather than exterminating them. Even when it wa clear they were facing serious persecution, from the mid-1930's and even after Kristallnacht in 1938, doors remained closed.

In 1937, the ship St Louis, carried nearly 1,000 German and other mainly Jewish refugees to Cuba, who had promised entry visas. But unknown to them, the Cuban government revoked those while they were at sea. Many had applied for US visas and were planning only on using Cuba as a staging post. They were, bar a few, refused entry and the ship had to set sail. The next obvious port of call was the USA but they refused to let the ship dock, despite may being in the process of applying for visas. Eventually the ship returned to Europe and a few countries agreed to take a portion of the passengers. However over a quarter are known to have perished in the Holocaust.

 

[kaz7]

No sending the boats back agreed , more drones and manpower trying to stop them , nothing at all about sending them back , stop the boats is all little sunak has agreed at nearly half a billion quid, never going to work

What happens to the ones that get here , are we able to send them to this new detention centre in france , no agreement on that , macron must be pissing himself

 

[kaz7]

And we cant pay our nurses properly

 

[Vic]

Language of the 1930s - what language?


".... and so we are also backing those police, and protecting the public, by ... stopping the whole criminal justice system from being hamstrung by what the Home Secretary would doubtless and rightly call the lefty human rights lawyers and other do-gooders.” (Boris Johnson)

It is .."crucially important that we neither permit, facilitate or encourage judicial review to be used as a political tool by those who have already lost the arguments" (Braverman)

We will "not be crippled by any judicial thinking" (Goering)

"I expect the German legal profession to understand that the nation is not here for them but that they are here for the nation" (Hitler)

 

[Don Karleone]

Normal island strikes again

 

[hilts]

Unfortunately, it has left me rather pessimistic about the future of our species.

In terms of evolutionary psychology, we still think tribalistically. Our responses tend to be emotive, pre-rational and are more or less instantaneous. Any rationality that is brought to the situation tends to be post-hoc, deployed to justify our gut feelings when it comes to matters of politics, ethics and aesthetics in order to justify them.

As Jonathan Haidt has noted, right-wing populists are adept at tapping in to those tribalistic, divisive sentiments and exploiting them, more so than those on the Left. They are better at making us turn on each other.

Meanwhile, the problems we face (climate change, nuclear proliferation, migrancy, the inherent instability of the world economy etc.) require an acknowledgement of our global interdependency that is just not going to happen with this primitive mentality that we have inherited from our ancestors.

With or without the UK all of what you say would still be present. I came to the conclusion many years back that the one and only problem we face is our own existence. Human beings are basically selfish self interested cunts. Some bigger than others.

Unfortunately being emotional creatures means we can't help but have attachments to those close to us.

If we were going to evolve emotionally to any great extent it would have happened by now.

 

[Mr Fraser]

Lineker's actually slightly wrong on this.

The language and actions are far more reminiscent of the British government in the 1930's than the Nazis. Although there was no specific legislation in place, the Home Secretary had the ultimate power to grant or deny entry. And the policy of appeasement meant that they didn't want to upset Germany by criticising its treatment of the German Jews. But nor did they want to help those Jews either.

There were strict conditions attached to any who wanted to come here and it was made clear that (a) they would have to be funded either by existing citizens or organisations (so not a penny of state funds) and (b) they were expected to assimilate as quickly as possible (e,g. strongly 'advised' not to speak German in public).

The right-wing press (i.e. most of it) used similarly inflammatory language in the context of the time, and this hardened public opinion.

There were around 500,000 German Jews at the starts of the 1930's. They could have easily been absorbed into the UK, US, Australia, South Africa, South America and Mandatory Palestine. Hitler, initially, just to get rid of them from Germany, rather than exterminating them. Even when it wa clear they were facing serious persecution, from the mid-1930's and even after Kristallnacht in 1938, doors remained closed.

In 1937, the ship St Louis, carried nearly 1,000 German and other mainly Jewish refugees to Cuba, who had promised entry visas. But unknown to them, the Cuban government revoked those while they were at sea. Many had applied for US visas and were planning only on using Cuba as a staging post. They were, bar a few, refused entry and the ship had to set sail. The next obvious port of call was the USA but they refused to let the ship dock, despite may being in the process of applying for visas. Eventually the ship returned to Europe and a few countries agreed to take a portion of the passengers. However over a quarter are known to have perished in the Holocaust.

We've been here before

Recent press reaction to asylum seekers arriving in Britain seems uniquely virulent. Surely this country gave a warm welcome in the past to refugees - such as those escaping the Nazis? Not so. Anne Karpf finds unpleasant parallels, then and now, and discovers how it feels to be the target of...

www.theguardian.com

 

[Stelea]

No surprise it’s come to this with Gaz.
Based upon the woke nature of the BBC I’m surprised they didn’t react quicker.
Anyway, time for a Jermane Jesus or Alex Scott to take over MOTD to run it into the ground like Football Focus.
I’m sure Lineker will be busier on BT or even appearing on SKY or Amazon where he will be a great asset

 

[crystal_mais]

She's a nasty piece of work

 

[hilts]

.

No surprise it’s come to this with Gaz.
Based upon the woke nature of the BBC I’m surprised they didn’t react quicker.
Anyway, time for a Jermane Jesus or Alex Scott to take over MOTD to run it into the ground like Football Focus.
I’m sure Lineker will be busier on BT or even appearing on SKY or Amazon where he will be a great asset

Worlds gone mad or should i say the beeb has. What a great example to set, see a perceived wrong doing keep your gob shut.

 

[Palerider]

Lineker's actually slightly wrong on this.

The language and actions are far more reminiscent of the British government in the 1930's than the Nazis. Although there was no specific legislation in place, the Home Secretary had the ultimate power to grant or deny entry. And the policy of appeasement meant that they didn't want to upset Germany by criticising its treatment of the German Jews. But nor did they want to help those Jews either.

There were strict conditions attached to any who wanted to come here and it was made clear that (a) they would have to be funded either by existing citizens or organisations (so not a penny of state funds) and (b) they were expected to assimilate as quickly as possible (e,g. strongly 'advised' not to speak German in public).

The right-wing press (i.e. most of it) used similarly inflammatory language in the context of the time, and this hardened public opinion.

There were around 500,000 German Jews at the starts of the 1930's. They could have easily been absorbed into the UK, US, Australia, South Africa, South America and Mandatory Palestine. Hitler, initially, just to get rid of them from Germany, rather than exterminating them. Even when it wa clear they were facing serious persecution, from the mid-1930's and even after Kristallnacht in 1938, doors remained closed.

In 1937, the ship St Louis, carried nearly 1,000 German and other mainly Jewish refugees to Cuba, who had promised entry visas. But unknown to them, the Cuban government revoked those while they were at sea. Many had applied for US visas and were planning only on using Cuba as a staging post. They were, bar a few, refused entry and the ship had to set sail. The next obvious port of call was the USA but they refused to let the ship dock, despite may being in the process of applying for visas. Eventually the ship returned to Europe and a few countries agreed to take a portion of the passengers. However over a quarter are known to have perished in the Holocaust.

Terrible. I agree that Braverman's language is much more uniquely British than Nazi but we live in a world where political point scoring is much more important than the truth. From my conversations with multiple people on the subject, most people are on the same page, they want to help genuine refugees. No one I know wants to pull up the drawbridge for genuine cases so the problem becomes one of identifying those priority cases. Can I ask, what would you do regarding refugees, asylum seekers and immigration? My understanding is that climate change will cause massive upheaval in the Southern hemisphere, not as much in the Northern hemisphere but obviously there will need to be massive changes regarding attitudes to migration and we should start planning for it now. Can I also assume you are Jewish? If not, please ignore, but, what sort of refugee policy does Israel have?