Liverpool bus damaged on journey back from Etihad Stadium today

Dodge said:
@GaudinoMotors - I've put this up on the Media thread, but its relevant on here. I feel your pain but...

Time to put this one to bed.

There are very strict regulations imposed on every PL club concerning offensive chanting. Offensive chanting is covered by FA rule E20.1 and sanctions against the club can range from financial penalties to partial & full stadium closure. It is the responsibility of the MCFC Safety & Security (SAS) team to ensure we're compliant and have all bases covered. The SAS has clear guidelines on what the FA deem to be "offensive" and however wrong & unpalatable it is for us, the "always the victims" chant has been deemed to be offensive, after lobbying by LFC, so falls under the E20.1 guidance.

Let's be clear here, we have NO CHOICE but to condemn it, under these rules. No choice whatsoever. So, when our SAS team hear any chant deemed to be offensive under E20.1 they have to show due diligence to the FA, which includes releasing the statement put out on Saturday, because it mitigates the sanction. The statement is a generic response to any deemed breach of E20.1 and is issued by the SAS team. You'll notice that the statement doesn't mention a specific game or chant, it's generic. The PR/Comms team don't issue it and I have it on very good authority that they don't like it and see it for what it is. The Club certainly don't like it and I'm pretty sure Pep doesn't like it, but that has no bearing on the statement whatsoever. It's all about mitigation, as is shown below, from E20.1.

A Club shall however be entitled to raise as a mitigating factor in relation to the determination of sanction only the extent to which it used all due diligence to ensure that it discharged the responsibility set out at FA Rule E20.1. In that regard, the sanction guidelines expressly refer to the following factors (amongst others) to be considered in determining sanction:

Whether the Club (and/or its officers):

* took all reasonable steps in its preparation and planning for the fixture in which the Relevant Breach occurred;
* took all reasonable steps in dealing effectively with the incident, when it arose;
* took all reasonable steps in identifying the supporter(s) involved;
* took sufficient action against those supporters responsible where those individuals were identified

Our SAS Manager has a debrief with the match referee before & after every game and despite the fact that the "offensive chanting" did not appear in the referees match report, the SAS team had to issue the club statement.

Why? Simply because they knew that the letter from Liverpool will be the post to the FA and if we had done nothing about it we would have been taken to the cleaners, with potential sanctions & the shit-storm that would become.

The club has absolutely not thrown it's supporters "under the bus" they've followed protocol, with the overall aim of protecting us from our detractors.

It's a much bigger picture than most of us will ever get our heads round.

Up the fucking Blues.
Click to expand...
@Dodge whilst I understand and concur with all you’ve said there why doesn’t it work both ways?
Did Liverpool FC ever really do anything about the REAL damage caused to our coach? Did they ever really follow through on the young girl who was injured by the coin incident and do they ever apologise when their supporters chant offensive songs at our supporters?

As I have a friend who is a Liverpool FC supporter I have on a couple of occasions way back been in their end for matches. (Right across the aisle from Ian Rush!!) :-)
I had good experiences over the years from both our end and theirs but a few years ago it started to get very, very nasty and intimidating and I am now very wary of them.
JMHO
 
Dodge said:
@GaudinoMotors - I've put this up on the Media thread, but its relevant on here. I feel your pain but...

Time to put this one to bed.

There are very strict regulations imposed on every PL club concerning offensive chanting. Offensive chanting is covered by FA rule E20.1 and sanctions against the club can range from financial penalties to partial & full stadium closure. It is the responsibility of the MCFC Safety & Security (SAS) team to ensure we're compliant and have all bases covered. The SAS has clear guidelines on what the FA deem to be "offensive" and however wrong & unpalatable it is for us, the "always the victims" chant has been deemed to be offensive, after lobbying by LFC, so falls under the E20.1 guidance.

Let's be clear here, we have NO CHOICE but to condemn it, under these rules. No choice whatsoever. So, when our SAS team hear any chant deemed to be offensive under E20.1 they have to show due diligence to the FA, which includes releasing the statement put out on Saturday, because it mitigates the sanction. The statement is a generic response to any deemed breach of E20.1 and is issued by the SAS team. You'll notice that the statement doesn't mention a specific game or chant, it's generic. The PR/Comms team don't issue it and I have it on very good authority that they don't like it and see it for what it is. The Club certainly don't like it and I'm pretty sure Pep doesn't like it, but that has no bearing on the statement whatsoever. It's all about mitigation, as is shown below, from E20.1.

A Club shall however be entitled to raise as a mitigating factor in relation to the determination of sanction only the extent to which it used all due diligence to ensure that it discharged the responsibility set out at FA Rule E20.1. In that regard, the sanction guidelines expressly refer to the following factors (amongst others) to be considered in determining sanction:

Whether the Club (and/or its officers):

* took all reasonable steps in its preparation and planning for the fixture in which the Relevant Breach occurred;
* took all reasonable steps in dealing effectively with the incident, when it arose;
* took all reasonable steps in identifying the supporter(s) involved;
* took sufficient action against those supporters responsible where those individuals were identified

Our SAS Manager has a debrief with the match referee before & after every game and despite the fact that the "offensive chanting" did not appear in the referees match report, the SAS team had to issue the club statement.

Why? Simply because they knew that the letter from Liverpool will be the post to the FA and if we had done nothing about it we would have been taken to the cleaners, with potential sanctions & the shit-storm that would become.

The club has absolutely not thrown it's supporters "under the bus" they've followed protocol, with the overall aim of protecting us from our detractors.

It's a much bigger picture than most of us will ever get our heads round.

Up the fucking Blues.
Click to expand...

Just out of interest, do you know what the FA has decided the offensive part is: just "always the victims", or the "it's never your fault" as well?

It's a good chant, evidenced by the hand-wringing it's causing, and tuneful too. A few tweaks may sort it. I suspect there are more chants to use against them than they have time and energy to try and stop.
 
Eccles Blue said:
@Dodge whilst I understand and concur with all you’ve said there why doesn’t it work both ways?
Did Liverpool FC ever really do anything about the REAL damage caused to our coach? Did they ever really follow through on the young girl who was injured by the coin incident and do they ever apologise when their supporters chant offensive songs at our supporters?

As I have a friend who is a Liverpool FC supporter I have on a couple of occasions way back been in their end for matches. (Right across the aisle from Ian Rush!!) :-)
I had good experiences over the years from both our end and theirs but a few years ago it started to get very, very nasty and intimidating and I am now very wary of them.
JMHO
Click to expand...

A very good point @Eccles Blue and something I was about to post in reply to @Dodge.

LFC don't appear to comply or be held to account under the same terms when their are similar incidents at Anfield.
 
Eccles Blue said:
@Dodge whilst I understand and concur with all you’ve said there why doesn’t it work both ways?
Did Liverpool FC ever really do anything about the REAL damage caused to our coach? Did they ever really follow through on the young girl who was injured by the coin incident and do they ever apologise when their supporters chant offensive songs at our supporters?

As I have a friend who is a Liverpool FC supporter I have on a couple of occasions way back been in their end for matches. (Right across the aisle from Ian Rush!!) :-)
I had good experiences over the years from both our end and theirs but a few years ago it started to get very, very nasty and intimidating and I am now very wary of them.
JMHO
Click to expand...
I have not seen any apologies Eccles, but I think they acknowledged the scandalous injury to the young girl at The Etihad.

With regard to chanting, unless City successfully get, for example, the Shipman chant onto the "offensive chant" list, it's never going to be in breach of FA rule E20.1.

Let's not underestimate the impact that Hillsborough had on the suits at the FA. It was the FA Cup, under the authority of the FA and the Premier League has FA rules imposed upon it. This has given LFC carte blanche to have ANY song they see fit put under the microscope and "always the victims" is now put under the catch-all "Hillsborough" umbrella.

I don't think any other fanbase would see it as anything other than "bants" but our precious neighbours from down the East Lancs can easily lobby the FA to include pretty much anything they deem Hillsborough related.

Apart from Munich references (and rightly so) I don't think any other club has ring-fenced any club specific "offensive" chants in any of the 5 divisions for which the FA rules apply.

City are hamstrung by this, as are all the other clubs, with the exception of Liverpool who can sing exactly what they want at Clanfield, with gusto.
 
eastmanc said:
I think we can all agree that the chant is not about Hillsborough which some in the press and certain Liverpool forums are insinuating .
Click to expand...
It doesn’t matter what any City fan thinks. The authorities (the police) were eventually found responsible for Hillsborough and any other authority (such as the FA or PL) will continue to ensure they don’t make further mistakes around it. The decision is now final.
 
west didsblue said:
The comment about the chanting is a different issue than the comment about the bus.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the bus comment. It wasn’t an apology, just a criticism of the act and the perpetrator.

On the other hand I think the chanting comment was ill conceived as they should know that the vast majority of us don’t see the victims chant as Hillsborough related. If we did, it wouldn’t be sung by more than the odd nobhead. That I’m sure.
Click to expand...
The chant isn't about hillsborough, they just don't like people saying nasty things to them because they're the most fragile gimpy motherfuckers on the planet. A lad I used to knock about with was crying about the 'dippers' phrase, saying it's poverty shaming etc etc on facebook a while back, trying to produce a narrative where, funnily enough, they were the victims of horrible chanting. My scouse wife told him to go fuck himself and stop being a ****, it's football fans giving each other shit, they just don't like it when it's aimed at them. Not heard from him since.
 
Citizen of Legoland said:
It doesn’t matter what any City fan thinks. The authorities (the police) were eventually found responsible for Hillsborough and any other authority (such as the FA or PL) will continue to ensure they don’t make further mistakes around it. The decision is now final.
Click to expand...
It really pisses me off that every club and the Premier League have to tip toe around them.
 
Last edited:
halfcenturyup said:
Just out of interest, do you know what the FA has decided the offensive part is: just "always the victims", or the "it's never your fault" as well?

It's a good chant, evidenced by the hand-wringing it's causing, and tuneful too. A few tweaks may sort it. I suspect there are more chants to use against them than they have time and energy to try and stop.
Click to expand...
It is a good and very fitting chant.

Another one we could start singing is (to the tune of ‘we all hate Leeds, scum’):

‘OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING, ASHAMED OF NOTHING
OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING, ASHAMED OF NOTHING
OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING, ASHAMED OF NOTHING
OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING, ASHAMED OF NOTHING’
 
CityWest said:
2 rocks were thrown by 2 x lads probably aged around 12 y/o from an opening in the railings on Ashton old Road between the CD mini Market and the traffic lights. One hit, one missed. Shattered outer skin on 1st passenger side window. Kids ran off into the estate. No other football related foot traffic left at this point.
Click to expand...
That lines up with what I saw and posted previously. There were two kids, I thought a bit older and I only saw one object, which I thought had fallen short and which I then drove past - grey stone, probably 3-4 inches across.

I'd said a bit closer to the Etihad, as could only vaguely remember, but it was that side where the houses are, as they ran back on the other side of the railings. A dashcam would probably have picked it up, although it was probably beyond the point where there were a few people filming the coaches.

Key thing is neither was wearing any club gear, whether City, rags or Leigh Centurions. Shouldn't happen, but they could just as easily have thrown them at a double decker. Very different than an organised bus greet and not sure what help the club will be able to give the police, but they have to say they'll try
 
CityWest said:
2 rocks were thrown by 2 x lads probably aged around 12 y/o from an opening in the railings on Ashton old Road between the CD mini Market and the traffic lights. One hit, one missed. Shattered outer skin on 1st passenger side window. Kids ran off into the estate. No other football related foot traffic left at this point.
Click to expand...
You’ve just done more there than Merseyside Police did in 2018!
 
bluesince76 said:
That lines up with what I saw and posted previously. There were two kids, I thought a bit older and I only saw one object, which I thought had fallen short and which I then drove past - grey stone, probably 3-4 inches across.

I'd said a bit closer to the Etihad, as could only vaguely remember, but it was that side where the houses are, as they ran back on the other side of the railings. A dashcam would probably have picked it up, although it was probably beyond the point where there were a few people filming the coaches.

Key thing is neither was wearing any club gear, whether City, rags or Leigh Centurions. Shouldn't happen, but they could just as easily have thrown them at a double decker. Very different than an organised bus greet and not sure what help the club will be able to give the police, but they have to say they'll try
Click to expand...
Indeed. It’s not like those two children were part of something organised like this:

1F6CB1A6-4221-4B44-8FFD-8C78655D75DE.png

But it’s them who are always the victims, isn’t it?
 
Dodge said:
Sanctions include fines, stand closures, partial stadium closures, even the full ground.

If any sanctions were applied it would effectively mean that our SAS team had failed in their duty to protect the Club from such actions. It's a no win situation for us as supporters, the SAS team and our Directors. We just have to suck it up and take it, however painful that is for ALL of us.

LFC have successfully tied everyone in knots and can use it to fulfil their own ends.

Go figure.
Click to expand...
It seems like the thin end of a particularly dangerous wedge.
Will chants calling certain pundits, referees, players etc wankers, require an apology/condemnation.
Will ..........now fck off home be viewed as offensive? You're shit and you know you are? Even Tearing.....apart again?
Where will such thin skinned nonsense end?
 
jayfx said:
The damage that City condemned in the statement they released. The damage that this whole thread is based on. Keep up mate.
Click to expand...
Fuck if you condescending prick, I’ve not seen any damage I’ve heard about a stone getting thrown. You got loads of photos then I take it you fucking bell end
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top