As ever the truth is always lost in war.
Some of the unverified reports being circulated about alleged atrocities on both sides show how social media is mainly used for spreading bullshit.
This is now threatening to boil over into a conflict of a much larger scale imo.
This is now threatening to boil over into a conflict of a much larger scale imo.
3 attacks on Jewish owned businesses, one of which we know was just a robbery.
1 religiously motivated attack is too many, but it feels like people are deliberately fear mongering when they say attacks are up 400%.
That ideology comes from putting people in a hopeless pressure cooker situationNo doubt but I believe the bigger issue here is the fact Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are an enemy that isn’t really interested in the odd settlement, its sole aim is the destruction of Israel and the deaths of all Jews.
They even go so far as to put that into writing.
How do you begin to try and make peace with that sort of ideology?
This is now threatening to boil over into a conflict of a much larger scale imo.
Sorry can you go further as I’m slightly unsure of the point you’re making.They're not on the battlefield.
For those who do want to learn more, here are two historical papers. The first is by an American Jew in 1919 arguing against a Jewish state (and claiming that's by a vast majority the view of American Jews). The basic premise is that the Diaspora meant that Jews have flourished wherever they are (despite antisemitism) - the present problem (in 1919) was the poverty and oppression of Jews in Russia and Rumania, and no-one else wanted them (keeping out Jewish paupers was the reason for Britain's first Immigration Act). It starts with a section on different sorts of Zionism, but see the prediction of how things would work out if Jews became a majority in Palestine (increasing anti-semitism elsewhere): "Even if it should come by the most perfectly natural process, the feelings of the natives as they see themselves driven to the wall, becoming more and more dependent upon those who are usurping their place, will not be any the less bitter on that account. The reaction of such a situation will be felt by the Jews all over the world. It is assuredly a serious matter to propose a policy which must, even if involuntarily, work injustice and hardships for others as a condition of its being carried out."While this is undoubtedly true, a few words in support of this thread and all the lunatics on it: I get some of my news from MSM, of course, but there is little on there that is discussed in-depth as things are on here. It's remarkable that a football forum can provide a "public service" in reflecting the views of a cross-section of the population, including even people who have experienced both sides of the conflict personally.
There are trolls and cunts, of course, but every now and then, there are posts that contain interesting and new information. Sometimes thought-provoking. It's a good barometer, it can be informative and, for me, at least, it is useful, warts and all. So well done to @Ric and all the mods for doing their best to keep this particular ship on an even keel in difficult circumstances.
As laudible as that sounds, what exactly is the root cause ?Again we need to look at the route cause of all this and fix it
Probably not but there'd be one less stick to weild, ultimately wars/violence on this scale is all about money and feeling wronged and someone will always want what next door has, they won't always know why but will want it anyway.If there was no religion would we all be able to live in peace?
That ideology comes from putting people in a hopeless pressure cooker situation
Probably not but as someone once said, there will always be good people doing good things and there will always be bad people doing bad things but only religion allows good people to do bad things whilst making them think they’re doing good things.If there was no religion would we all be able to live in peace?
This is now threatening to boil over into a conflict of a much larger scale imo.
Sadly, I can’t disagree with anything you’ve posted there.Because tragically it’s what a lot of people want.
Netanyahu and the more far right Israelis, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Russia, lots of Americans….there’s a lot of people who either don’t care or simply want a full scale conflict to erupt.
Take away from groups like Hamas etc, what do you think years and years of subgegation will do to a population, it drives them to extremes we have seen it time ad time again, where poverty, hopeless and inequality exists so does Crime and in the Geopolitical areas terrorismSorry but I don’t agree. This is a small segment of the Muslim faith that believe anyone that isn’t Muslim deserves to die and to make that happen, they are willing to die themselves as martyrdom is some sort of guaranteed path to heaven for them.
You don’t issue decrees that you will not rest until Israel is wiped off the map and all Jews killed because of a land dispute or settlement if you are in any way normal.
ISIS and radicals like Hamas and co are a scourge in the human race. There is nothing anyone can do to please them, nothing. No negotiations are ever going to change their warped view of the world which they are willing to kill for to see.
Israel and its population are under threat, they have seen first hand what Hamas will do and they have every right to now go all out to destroy them.
They will be doing the world a favour in doing so and they will be doing the vast majority of peaceful and more moderate Palestinians a favour as well.
Take away from groups like Hamas etc, what do you think years and years of subgegation will do to a population, it drives them to extremes we have seen it time ad time again, where poverty, hopeless and inequality exists so does Crime and in the Geopolitical areas terrorism
No amount of bombing and killing will change that, in fact it often has the opposite effect, in fact it just drives further radicalisation, in Northern Ireland, Bloody Sunday just made the PIRA more popular and they got more support, every heavy handed search by the Army and Police just further radicalised the Catholic Nationalist population and the Palestinian Population are exactly the same
The worse One was Biden saying he'd actually seen the photos of Beheaded Babies. His words. Now the White House has walked it all back and said he hasn't and no one else has.As ever the truth is always lost in war.
Some of the unverified reports being circulated about alleged atrocities on both sides show how social media is mainly used for spreading bullshit.
…Israel and its population are under threat, they have seen first hand what Hamas will do and they have every right to now go all out to destroy them.
They will be doing the world a favour in doing so and they will be doing the vast majority of peaceful and more moderate Palestinians a favour as well.
Whilst a good read it is not completely accurate in its implications. I tend not to get involved but sometimes things need to be said.
The Jewish population in Israel was rising well before the end of World War II, some 30%, it's a significant number, far exceeding the total number of Jews currently living in the UK, in a fraction of the land mass. So this idea that Jews were not there in significant numbers until the decision was made to create a Jewish state post holocaust is nonsense.
The irony here is many people talk about opression and apartheid when it comes to Israel when the facts are that the 100,000s of Jews that were there before 1949 were persecuted in surrrounding countries: Lebanon, Morocco, Iraq, Iran and Yemen to name a few. That was true apartheid and oppression where those Jews were forced to convert, especially the women, forced and raped into muslim marriages. Nobody brings this up. So like many of their ancestors they returned to the land we now call Israel, fed up of constantly being persecuted in places they tried to call home. This is completely orthogonal to the holocaust which simply acted as a catalyst causing the population of Jews to jump from 30% to 80% more rapidly and a formation of a state.
What those Jews came to is virtually a waste land, there was hardly anything there outside of the major cities where many were simply slaves to an Ottoman elite. Most of the rest of the population were extremely poor, incredibly dispersed and lived in what at best could be called shanty towns, there was no infrastructure or attempt to build any significant infrastructure. Of course a home is a home, but let's be clear, most of the land was waste land.
The Arab countries around did not care about the Palestinians who lived there, in fact it was the opposite, they considered them the lowest of the low and have only shown an interest since it became a Jewish state.
Now we get the argument that it is Israel's fault for continuing to build on areas they probably shouldn't. I'm against the settlements near the borders but would it make a difference, no, and the Israelis have had enough constantly trying to create a two state solution against a population that has at their helm a terrorist organisation that has made it clear they won't accept 2 states, they want the total destruction of Israel and are backed by Iran. There is no solution there, a two state is not possible so Israel gets on with their lives.
It is also remarkable that the finger is constantly pointed at Israel. Where is the uproar when Eygpt closes the crossing to Gaza, it is never mentioned but they do it. Besides Saudi Arabia where is all the funding from Arab States? Israel itself probably gives more, gives workers permits and yet has the finger pointed at it.
It is disappointing that at Arsenal there was not a 1 min silence. Anywhere else in the world where we hear of babies having their throats cut in their cots, or 9 year old kids watching their siblings be killed before they are killed, where women are dragged out of their homes and raped, etc etc, anywhere else and there would be no question about a 1 min silence . I've no doubt that such a silence would be marred by protests but sadly those that protest have not bothered (or chose to ignore) to really learn about the history of that land and the people in it.
Israelis cannot be blamed for a decision made by the British in 1949 and even then in my view the British just acted as a catalyst for the inevitable given the population trends. Israelis took a wasteland and worked out how to live there, including in areas such as the Negev dessert where they managed to grow crops, genetically modifying avocados to suite their climate and much more. Yes there is huge disparity between the conditions Israelis live in versus current Palestinians but that does not imply Israel is an oppressor.