PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Jam Tomorrow said:
Me too mate. But I think it works both ways, on the one hand they can punish us on circumstantial evidence I.e. what they have fished out of the Der Spiegel hacked trove on the ‘balance of probability’, on the other hand can they hand out a really severe punishment on the basis of the same circumstantial evidence? Would that be an egregious overreach? I think it would be and would cause a huge legal shitstorm. No doubt they want us out of the league, ideally shut down. But that’s easier said than done. With Everton, Chelsea and City in their sights and the question around Newcastle’s ownership still up their sleeve, they could force a split. Why should so called lesser clubs simply accept their place as make weights for the red cartel? The same cartel who want to abolish parachute payments for relegated clubs via their EFL plant Rick Parry.
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I understand that, but there is the whole appeal process, which in the end might end up at some sort oof court of appeal. I read that bloody article several times, there is no independent appeal body, there is bloody nothing smelling of independent process. We'll end up appealing to the very same people picked by somebody, who happened also to pick those who might have found find us guilty, and to laugh at all that, those considering our appeal might be the same ones having found Everton guilty. Comrade Xi would not come with this framework.
 
goat boy said:
Is it like this? Fix it for me if needed.

An analogy.

Jimmy went to a Spar on 3 occasions about 10 years and ago, and walked out of the shop, each time, with a bag of maltesers in his pocket.

Hes been charged with shoplifting. But, for some reason, hes been charged not once, for the alledged crime, not 3 times for each occasion, but 114 times for each individual malteser.

Now, Jimmy did no wrong and as it so happens he can show you the receipts of payment for all 3 trips. No crime has been commited and Spar quickly confirmed that they have absolutely no complaint. But, charge 115 is revealed to be non cooperation with his accuser. Is Jimmy's non cooperation at least understandable, if...

A) inspection of the 3rd receipt reveals he also purchased a couple of particularly nice bottles of single malt and believes his accuser will portray him, widely, as some kind of degenerate alcoholic

B) as he was feeling especially perky that day, on the 2nd visit, you may spot that he took down a couple of top shelf titles, and yunno what, that's a simple matter of privacy.

C) also demonstrably done nothing wrong at any point?
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Was this Jimmy Saville buying sweets for kids?
 
Dribble said:
The one thing that's just occurred to me is Everton's points deduction being applied straight away.

If they applied a points deduction to City before an appeal, do we appear in the CL the following season before the appeal's been heard like with UEFA/CAS, or are we removed from the CL immediately?

It's now making total sense why the PL did what they did to Everton. They've set a precedent by their actions yesterday, which could deny us a CL spot irrespective of the ultimate conclusion of an appeals hearing.

If I was City, I'd be telling the PL if they try that immediate sanction stunt, we'll sue the fuck out of them for loss of earnings.
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If they appeal are they not reinstated until,the appeal is heard.
Ballydoyle went to the high court to allow mick kinane to ride in the King george back in the day even though he was banned and the appeal failed.
www.irishracing.com

Kinane back on Galileo after injunction

Michael Kinane will ride Galileo in the King George VI And Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes after winning an injunction in the Dublin High Court this afternoon.Kinane`s solicitor Andrew Coonan made representations to the High Court after the jockey lost his appeal at the Irish Turf Club earlier...
www.irishracing.com www.irishracing.com
 
OB1 said:
Do the Premier League regulations allow for an appeal?

Whether they do or do not, if they should reach an incorrect decision and fly in the face of the burden of proof principles, I imagine City’s lawyers will attempt to resort to the courts. I am not not qualified to say if they would succeed in going down that route. I’d anticipate them winning if the route was open. But I’m an accountant not a lawyer.
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We can appeal to an independent panel of their choosing.

We can only go to court if there are serious failings with the hearing process, but not over the evidence, facts or decisions reached.

HOWEVER, it seems the government are on it, as there have been calls today to hurry up with the creation of an independent football regulator, & sort the mess out.
 
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Dribble said:
The one thing that's just occurred to me is Everton's points deduction being applied straight away.

If they applied a points deduction to City before an appeal, do we appear in the CL the following season before the appeal's been heard like with UEFA/CAS, or are we removed from the CL immediately?

It's now making total sense why the PL did what they did to Everton. They've set a precedent by their actions yesterday, which could deny us a CL spot irrespective of the ultimate conclusion of an appeals hearing.

If I was City, I'd be telling the PL if they try that immediate sanction stunt, we'll sue the fuck out of them for loss of earnings.
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but they got to get rags in champions league some how
 
OB1 said:
How can you be annoyed at the club for not defending this more publicly? If you are facing charges like City are, you simply do not say much before the case has concluded.

City are behaving in exactly the right way. I am sure that they have been very careful to keep their powder dry and hopefully they will deliver to the commission the irrefutable evidence they have said they have.
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Spot on OB. I dare say City have already submitted their evidence on paper and maybe that’s why those that matter - the PL and City (as opposed to the media and internet self proclaimed experts) have deafened us with their silence albeit maybe for different reasons
 
OB1 said:
How can you be annoyed at the club for not defending this more publicly? If you are facing charges like City are, you simply do not say much before the case has concluded.

City are behaving in exactly the right way. I am sure that they have been very careful to keep their powder dry and hopefully they will deliver to the commission the irrefutable evidence they have said they have.
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I remember in the court of small claims someone whose contract was terminated because he had been off work for a long time had, his employers claimed, been paid too much as severance pay. He was told by the magistrate that the onus of proof was not upon him but on his ex-employers to prove an over payment. EVEN IF HE TOOK NO PART IN THE PROCEEDINGS he would win the case if his employer could not prove this. His employer claimed they had confirmed agreement to a much lower sum than that paid in a letter sent to him. He believed he had only received what he had agreed over the 'phone. His sole contribution was to say he had not received this letter. As the employer had no proof of delivery THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITIES was that he had not received the letter and he did not have to repay a penny There are times when silence is golden and City know when as well as anyone.
 
SamBlue said:
I understand that, but there is the whole appeal process, which in the end might end up at some sort oof court of appeal. I read that bloody article several times, there is no independent appeal body, there is bloody nothing smelling of independent process. We'll end up appealing to the very same people picked by somebody, who happened also to pick those who might have found find us guilty, and to laugh at all that, those considering our appeal might be the same ones having found Everton guilty. Comrade Xi would not come with this framework.
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100%. The PL pick the adjudicating panel, then the PL pick the appeals panel.

Independence Putin style... 乁⁠(⁠ ⁠•⁠_⁠•⁠ ⁠)⁠ㄏ
 
SamBlue said:
I understand that, but there is the whole appeal process, which in the end might end up at some sort oof court of appeal. I read that bloody article several times, there is no independent appeal body, there is bloody nothing smelling of independent process. We'll end up appealing to the very same people picked by somebody, who happened also to pick those who might have found find us guilty, and to laugh at all that, those considering our appeal might be the same ones having found Everton guilty. Comrade Xi would not come with this framework.
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Given that there is no right of appeal, maybe one of the first actions of an independent regulator would be to comprise a code of conduct and rules that the Premier league would be forced to adopt or comply with, including a right of appeal to that regulator.
The whole point of a regulator is to regulate the industry, in this case football.
 
The non co operation part gets me thinking, I am assuming by non co operating they mean we failed to hand over financial records to the PL, now assume we are found not guilty of any of the other charges, surely this strengthens our argument to not provide the information requested,
 
B\connellblue said:
If they appeal are they not reinstated until,the appeal is heard.
Ballydoyle went to the high court to allow mick kinane to ride in the King george back in the day even though he was banned and the appeal failed.
www.irishracing.com

Kinane back on Galileo after injunction

Michael Kinane will ride Galileo in the King George VI And Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes after winning an injunction in the Dublin High Court this afternoon.Kinane`s solicitor Andrew Coonan made representations to the High Court after the jockey lost his appeal at the Irish Turf Club earlier...
www.irishracing.com www.irishracing.com
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No. Everton lost their points immediately, regardless of a pending appeal.

If Everton do appeal & the points deduction remains until the outcome, it becomes abundantly clear what the PL insidious plan is for City.

Throw the book at us, & we're out of the CL for a season or two because of the initial sanction, & until the appeal is heard.

Either way, I now see a potential way for them to seriously affect us even if the charges don't stick.

The PL's strategy will become clear if as expected Everton appeal.
 
abu13 said:
The non co operation part gets me thinking, I am assuming by non co operating they mean we failed to hand over financial records to the PL, now assume we are found not guilty of any of the other charges, surely this strengthens our argument to not provide the information requested,
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See where you are coming from but they could thensay that if we had cooperated in the first place it would have saved the time and expense of the proceedings.
who knows!?
 
Dribble said:
No. Everton lost their points immediately, regardless of a pending appeal.

If Everton do appeal & the points deduction remains until the outcome, it becomes abundantly clear what the PL insidious plan is for City.

Throw the book at us, & we're out of the CL for a season or two because of the initial sanction, & until the appeal is heard.

Either way, I now see a potential way for them to seriously affect us even if the charges don't stick.

The PL's strategy will become clear if as expected Everton appeal.
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They’re laying ground work.
 
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