Mate, charges are usually brought when all the evidence has been gathered & ready to be presented.How do you know this? They must have something to build their case on. What bothers me after the current media speculation is that the PL can’t afford the embarrassment of us being cleared & in this stinking corrupt world of football, it’s the ones in charge that rule. Money talks & we’re not that sort of underhand club that passes brown envelopes, like for example, Chelski & I fear our niceness will be our downfall.
Exactly and the shit sticksGood post
It’s amazing that they have even tried to throw all this shite at us again.
The thing that is most shocking to me and proves the whole sport is bent is that UEFA found us guilty and banned us when it turned out (according to CAS):
1 - they had no supporting evidence
2 - they ignored their own rules (time barring)
This just proves that they decide you are guilty and then ignore any due process to get to the end goal.
Martin Lipton has said the ruling could be as early as next year (I assume he means calendar year), not sure whether he has been briefed or not.
Stefan is quoted in the article.
If we are convicted and its a big if, they are suggesting fraud and after that it becomes a legal matter, if true people will go to jail we arent talking about points deductions and if not we are talking slander on a massive scale from the premier league, i thoroughly believe that the pl have dug themselves into a hole that they are desperately trying to climb out of and they have no clue how to do so.Everton produced 28,000 documents for ONE charge and it took the Premier league six months to come to the conclusion they were culpable , and this was after Everton admitted their FFP issues and were simply trying to plea for a lenient punishment
We have 115 charges , deny every one of them and have the best legal team on the planet , absolutely no chance this is coming to a conclusion in the next five years , unless the Premier league come to a decision stating "beyond reasonable doubt" or simllar to appease the 'istree clubs , then i believe we will be able to challenge their decision making process outside the Premier league's remit , i.e. the law courts.
Imagine if they did relegate us and we won in the law courts the amount of compensation they would have to pay , it would be billions , they might be tough with Everton & Chelsea who have both held their hands up and admitted irregularities ,but will they take the risk of taking on the Abu Dhabi Royal Family and calling them liars , can the UK government stand by and lose billions of UK investment over a football issue , there is a far bigger picture here than football.
to be fair, we don't know exactly what they have. We strongly suspect that they will struggle to prove anything. My point was more about the seeming unfairness of the Everton penalty and that our expectation that an independent commission will treat us fairly may be flawed.The everton ruling couldnt have less to do with our case and i dont know how many times it has been said on here or the fact that the red media are trying to link the case.
Everton failed ffp, it wasnt a question, the numbers were there and they openly admitted that to be the case, there was mitigating circumstances but the numbers are the numbers and that's why they got done.
What we are being accused of is fraudulent accounting, the numbers arent there and the pl have to produce solid evidence that this was the case, as of yet all they have done is produce speculative and spurious evidence which combined with the frothing red media and its appeal to idiot fans has built it into something that it clearly isnt. If they had compelling evidence to suggest fraudulent accounting this would be a criminal not a civil case and the fact that they have yet to produce anything of the sort will tell you that this is nothing more than a fishing expedition designed by the pl to suggest they can keep their own house in order so the independent regulators dont take their toys away because when and if that happens their will be alot of people with alot of skeletons absolutely terrified.
Thought he'd died or retired!Lipton knows a much as you and me , he's writing shite to attract clicks its the standard industry practice , print bullshit + make money.
The elephant in the room for me is the PL issuing 115 charges, but requiring 2-4 years to bring forth a hearing so we can defend ourselves.Everton produced 28,000 documents for ONE charge and it took the Premier league six months to come to the conclusion they were culpable , and this was after Everton admitted their FFP issues and were simply trying to plea for a lenient punishment
We have 115 charges , deny every one of them and have the best legal team on the planet , absolutely no chance this is coming to a conclusion in the next five years , unless the Premier league come to a decision stating "beyond reasonable doubt" or simllar to appease the 'istree clubs , then i believe we will be able to challenge their decision making process outside the Premier league's remit , i.e. the law courts.
Imagine if they did relegate us and we won in the law courts the amount of compensation they would have to pay , it would be billions , they might be tough with Everton & Chelsea who have both held their hands up and admitted irregularities ,but will they take the risk of taking on the Abu Dhabi Royal Family and calling them liars , can the UK government stand by and lose billions of UK investment over a football issue , there is a far bigger picture here than football.
As you can see with the everton ruling, the independent commission is tied to the evidence and have no choice but to give reasonings for their recommendations, if the evidence is not their, then they have nothing to go at, as i have said if the independent commission finds us guilty, we are talking criminal charges, if the pl had that kind of evidence why not send it directly to the cps, the fact is they dont.to be fair, we don't know exactly what they have. We strongly suspect that they will struggle to prove anything. My point was more about the seeming unfairness of the Everton penalty and that our expectation that an independent commission will treat us fairly may be flawed.
Who cares. Neither are in Manchester, ship canal or not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Salford and Trafford are on opposite sides of the Manchester Ship Canal, geography not taken as an option at school I presume!
Agree , the Premier league will regret the Everton punishment , they have already opened a can of worms with at least five clubs claiming compensation , if Chelsea and ourselves suffer a similar fate there will be a dozen other clubs with the Dippers at the head of the queue claimng , we know how scousers like a bit of "compo".If we are convicted and its a big if, they are suggesting fraud and after that it becomes a legal matter, if true people will go to jail we arent talking about points deductions and if not we are talking slander on a massive scale from the premier league, i thoroughly believe that the pl have dug themselves into a hole that they are desperately trying to climb out of and they have no clue how to do so.
tbh mate any knuckle dragger who calls you a cheat at a petrol station for having a city jacket is very unlikely to be able to read so the press wont stir them up.It's all about to implode, the pl is eating itself just as the American owners wanted.
The fans of these American clubs are to think to see what's happening.
Bloody hell I even got called a cheat when filling my car up at the petrol station last night. All I was doing was queuing up to pay ! In my City jacket.
I hope it doesnt get to the stage were I feel unsafe wearing my City gear. The way the press/media are stirring it up, it could to that.
Lipton is a maggotLipton knows a much as you and me , he's writing shite to attract clicks its the standard industry practice , print bullshit + make money.
It's like the twisted court of Judge Nutmeg!Following on from the post from @acton28.blog detailing the charges, I've tried to summarise them below.
Some of these charges are quite ridiculous, and their inclusion can only be for the effect of making City look bad. They are deliberately and unnecessarily vindictive. Let’s have a look at them in more detail.
9 charges (2009/10 to 2017/18) that “In all matters and transactions relating to the League each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with the utmost good faith.” I can’t think of anything specific we might have done relating to this, so the PL must be saying that by breaking the other rules, we have not acted in good faith to them or other clubs.
Funny that they didn’t charge Liverpool under this rule, when they found out they had hacked in to our scouting databases in 2013. The PL said in response to their decision not to take action against Liverpool, “This is due to a number of factors including the age of the alleged concerns and the settlement agreed by the two clubs involved.” So, the age of the alleged concerns applies in one case but not the other?
Also, nine Premier League clubs (Arsenal, Burnley, Chelsea, Leicester, Liverpool, Man Utd, Newcastle, Spurs and Wolves) wrote to CAS asking them not to lift Manchester City's European ban. This seems to me very much like acting in bad faith towards another PL club, and a breach of the same rule. But none of them were charged.
40 charges under different rules in each season from 2009/10 to 2017/18, but essentially are:
- Company accounts to be registered with Companies House and the PL by 1 March.
- Submission of interim accounts to the League, if annual accounts end before 30 November in current season.
- UEFA applicant clubs to provide to Premier League upon request, future financial information including P&L and cash flow.
- Requirement to notify PL of changes in circumstances that might affect finances.
1 charge in 2009/10 relating to ticket sales to visiting clubs. Quite what they suspect us of doing, and why it has taken so long to come to light, and why it doesn’t fall within the Liverpool “age of the alleged concerns” precedent, I can only speculate on. My guess is it’s a witch hunt. I wonder how many other clubs have been investigated for ticketing irregularities back in 2009.
8 charges between 2009/10 and 2012/13 relating to manager remuneration - the Mancini contract allegations?
12 charges between 2010/11 and 2015/16 relating to player remuneration. Could this be the image rights issue?
5 charges of failing to comply with UEFA regulations, in the years from 2013/14 to 2017/18. In failing UEFA FFP, United broke this same rule recently, but they haven’t been charged by the PL yet.
25 cases of failing Profitability and Sustainability rules, from 2015/16 to 2017/18. I would say from a layman’s POV, this is really one rule, split out into nine separate clauses (eight in two of the years). But rather than saying we have allegedly broken Profitability and Sustainability rules in three seasons, it looks better for them to count it as 25. (Acting in good faith towards a member club?)
30 accusations amounting to failure to cooperate in respect of seasons 2018/19 to 2022/23, citing six rules in each season.
I’ve checked my figures over a few times using https://www.premierleague.com/news/3045970 as a reference. It looks a lot like 130 charges to me, so I suppose the PL have generously rounded it down, or they can’t count.
Martin Lipton has said the ruling could be as early as next year (I assume he means calendar year), not sure whether he has been briefed or not.
Stefan is quoted in the article.
Is that Lipton's choice of bait ?Lipton is a maggot
nah mate his choice of bait is ridiculous articles for a newspaper full of lies aimed at idiots and tbf he catches alot with them.Is that Lipton's choice of bait ?
My reply is incomplete. The full answer should continue as follows.I am a 'legal eagle' with experience of non-judicial legal proceedings like these proceedings.
In any well-regulated legal environment rules of procedure normally exist before proceedings begin. These tell the parties what are their rights and obligations at the outset.
Normally, when proceedings begin a clock starts to tick. There will be a timetable for the party alleging misconduct to frame its charges, amend them if necessary,
If you did a physicological profile I would suspect there are a lot of Rags & Dippers who read The Sun , but only if the Beano has sold out :)nah mate his choice of bait is ridiculous articles for a newspaper full of lies aimed at idiots and tbf he catches alot with them.