VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[Gorton_Tubster]

so you have more faith in officials without video tech ?

you have more trust that they will get more penalty/offside decision correct and in a fair manner than not without video help?

VAR has introduced so much shit. It isn't just whether the ref gets it wrong or not.

Handballs, fouls, penalties, offsides rules all fucked up, time taken to make decisions. Total utter confusion for the ref team, the fans, the tv audience. a much worse experience of the game for all. Much much worse though is the increased feeling that cheating is going on.....

All of that wasn't worth getting an extra 25% decisions (absolutely) correct to the nth degree.

For me I want to see it rolled back and started again.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I didn’t say that did I?

My thoughts on PiGMOB as an organisation have never changed, not fit for purpose and standards of its officials poor at best, corrupt at worst.

I’d get rid tomorrow and have the PL bring in the best officials from across Europe for games. If VAR is to stay, officials communications broadcasted in real time to both tv and stadium so that any decisions taken are clear with reasons why.

Only that will do.

fair enough

I'd look at better ways to implement VAR, clearer rules and better officials on the monitors. that's about it really. nothing will eradicate the odd bad decision in my view. if that makes me a WUM then so be it.

 

[wattle]

would you scrap it completely or keep it and implement it better?

Personally I'd scrap it because the game has lost all spontaneity. But that's my personal choice which I'm sure you know :) I do understand though that it has a place to play in the game - but not with the technology we have/use or with the current morons in charge now. It should be paused until we have the current up to date technology implemented eg AI offsides, chips in the ball etc and train up proper professional VAR refs. It was brought in way to soon before it was ready. I'd genuinely love to hear your current thoughts on it though.

 

[kaz7]

so you have more faith in officials without video tech ?

you have more trust that they will get more penalty/offside decision correct and in a fair manner than not without video help?

You usually use dives in your reasons to have var so what do you make of the dipper dives this weekend ?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Of course they have. They get unbridled abuse.

This thread isn’t for debate, it’s for people to shout VAR is shit 2500 times.

To be fair, it was designed to make close, contentious decisions as accurate as possible by providing the match official two more sets of eyes and multiple angle super slo-mo video replays and perfectly timed lines to show offsides.

If you think it has done that consistently, then there is no need for the thread. But, Hawk Eye it is not!

The subjectivity of VAR officials and the match officials are still creating conflicting outcomes, including (in no particular order) the timing of when the ball is played for offside, the clarity and fidelity of the cameras for when the ball is played for offside, what constitutes a red card when the video shows an over the ball challenge, and whether there is SUFFICIENT contact to constitute A FOUL that would normally produce a penalty decision.

Instead, it’s become something else…in the eyes of many fans. As we have heard, some VARs don’t like to overturn the match official or force them to overturn an on field call.

I’m fairly agnostic, as I think it has been very helpful in settling tight offside calls when the timing of the “when the ball is played” is correct.

However, even with the blue-tinted specs tucked in their case, to NOT point out to Taylor that Jota dived after receiving minimal contact from a goalkeeper who recognized the poor touch wide and pulled out of the challenge, was a disgrace.

Atwell had a duty to (AT A MINIMUM!!!) tell Taylor to have a look at the monitor, with the possibility that Jota, not Dubravka, should get the yellow card for diving.

I can live with the possibility that Taylor was conned by an exceedingly late and obvious dive he should have been able to identify. But, to suggest Atwell and Co could possibly be conned, given the definitive video confirmation, creates incredulity.

And, aren’t most threads here designed to air the strong negative feelings about the topic at hand…Media Discussion is an easy example, and most political threads, too?!

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

VAR has introduced so much shit. It isn't just whether the ref gets it wrong or not.

Handballs, fouls, penalties, offsides rules all fucked up, time taken to make decisions. Total utter confusion for the ref team, the fans, the tv audience. a much worse experience of the game for all. Much much worse though is the increased feeling that cheating is going on.....

All of that wasn't worth getting an extra 25% decisions (absolutely) correct to the nth degree.

For me I want to see it rolled back and started again.

VAR is here to stay. People forget what it was like pre VAR. Every week there would be a catalogue of errors and calls for video. If we go back it will be just the same.

The problems now are the time it takes and the small number of errors. The time factor is the consequence of fans wanting the right decisions which they invariably do.

And there will always be errors as its all subjective to some extent.

 

[super_city_si]

VAR itself is not a problem. Used properly by competent people it could clear up a lot of mistakes. BUT, as is want with the rules makers, there are ridiculous caveats and rules around its use and for what it can be used. Add in that the people using it seem to be getting worse at interpreting the rules and its become a shit show.

The ONLY people who thought Jota's dive was a penalty last night (aside from liverpool fans) were the officials. Make it make sense.

Agree with @Alan Harper's Tash Webb needs sacking. The whole referees structure and training needs fixing, you cant have people as seriously incompetent as Atwell continually being employed in the premier league.

 

[deano ou812]

It’s quite simple how long has VAR been in use in the premier league 4 years is it ?
And in that time it has got worse instead of better,now make out of that what you want but I know what my thoughts are on the subject..

 

[dronefromsector7G]

You usually use dives in your reasons to have var so what do you make of the dipper dives this weekend ?

VAR used correctly ie not bent, would have seen that ridiculous decision to give a penalty overturned. They want VAR gone simple as that

 

[blueinsa]

fair enough

I'd look at better ways to implement VAR, clearer rules and better officials on the monitors. that's about it really. nothing will eradicate the odd bad decision in my view. if that makes me a WUM then so be it.

Instead of it currently spending ages on forensically trying to chalk goals off using camera technology not fit for that purpose and hiding behind the deliberately obtuse bollocks that is clear and obvious or changing from week to week to get behind the latest Sky led demands because a manager in Red has demanded such change, it should do what’s right, stop the cheats, right the wrongs and it should do so in the open, with nothing to hide.

Sadly it won’t, it should go followed by PiGMOB.

 

[Stephen230]

I’d get rid tomorrow and have the PL bring in the best officials from across Europe for games.

That isn’t going to happen. Even if we, arrogantly maybe, assume all the best referees would want to come here, because FIFA will only ever select the best one or two referees from any association for their tournaments.

So if say one association had the 10 best referees, eight of them would be missing out on a chance to go to the World Cup.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

One of the biggest contradictions for referees (and I've experienced the same whilst cricket umpiring in recent years) is that people scream for both consistency and common sense, when in reality, they're mutually exclusive.
Last night Taylor waved "play-on" after a blatant shirt pull by Joelinton, and there was a natural assumption that he'd give a yellow card at the next stoppage.
Similarly, United's Dalot was given a second yellow card for dissent at Anfield when we've all seen referees ignore similar offences.
City got a penalty at Old Trafford for the first time in PL history, but didn't get one at Arsenal for a far more blatant shirt-pull just a few weeks previously.
How many times have we seen a City player get a yellow card at the ETIHAD when the referee has just tolerated 5-6 previous "soft" fouls by cynical opponents?
Two foul throws at Luton v City, but similar offences ignored at virtually every fixture.

Instead of resolving this inconsistency VAR has actually magnified the issue.

 

[mancboy]

Var as a concept is fine but like most technologies it is the human input which is its downfall, the semi automated offside system used in uefa works absolutely fine, when humans are tasked with drawing the lines or making subjective decisions the whole thing falls down because its just the same as before var existed in that people are making decisions based on their preconceptions and prejudices and backing each other up except its done slower and in minute detail.

 

[deano ou812]

Are the rules/laws in Spain,Germany,Italy the same as in England regards VAR,part of the problem is they seem to want to obstruct or block improvements to the system as in the refusal of the premier league to take the automated system used by uefa in the champions league which is absolutely brilliant,do other countries use the uefa system..

 

[kaz7]

Var as a concept is fine but like most technologies it is the human input which is its downfall, the semi automated offside system used in uefa works absolutely fine, when humans are tasked with drawing the lines or making subjective decisions the whole thing falls down because its just the same as before var existed in that people are making decisions based on their preconceptions and prejudices and backing each other up except its done slower and in minute detail.

That semi automated offside worked brilliantly in one of our games recently , ten secs it took and right decision , i just dont believe our clubs are not voting for it bar the red shirts , makes no sense , i think the prem chief , put in place by the rags and dippers, just bends over for them on this

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Last night Taylor waved "play-on" after a blatant shirt pull by Joelinton, and there was a natural assumption that he'd give a yellow card at the next stoppage.

Instead of resolving this inconsistency VAR has actually magnified the issue.

I agree, I thought Joelinton was going to get the yellow after the period of play concluded, but on review he didn’t pull his shirt, Joelinton put his hand on the player’s shoulder and didn’t really impede him the way it seemed on first blush.

Again, I agree that most refs would have blown, stopped the game for a foul, and issued the yellow card…which shows the inconsistency. But, it was not necessarily a bad call.

What irritates me far more…as in way, way more…is the number of yellow cards being issued for technical issues while ignoring leg breakers and the physical stuff that leaves players on the sidelines for a month!

We need a different card for technical indiscretions and their penalty should be fines sent to a PFA Charity Foundation for distribution every Christmas. I’d suggest a green card!

A player shouldn’t be sent off for speaking up, unless it’s foul and abusive directed at the official (which is already a red card offence), which should be a green followed by a red, so the player gets a bigger Charity fine!

 

[BlueHammer85]

You usually use dives in your reasons to have var so what do you make of the dipper dives this weekend ?

both shouldn't have been awarded in my opinion but the ref deemed there was enough contact to award penalty and VAR tend to not overturn the refs decision unless 100% clear and obvious. I'd like Var to tell refs that even though there was contact it was minimal and book the divers. that would be preferred.

Pre VAR and the ref awards them penalties WITHOUT any contact as what did happen many many times with Salah and co.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

To be fair, it was designed to make close, contentious decisions as accurate as possible by providing the match official two more sets of eyes and multiple angle super slo-mo video replays and perfectly timed lines to show offsides.

If you think it has done that consistently, then there is no need for the thread. But, Hawk Eye it is not!

The subjectivity of VAR officials and the match officials are still creating conflicting outcomes, including (in no particular order) the timing of when the ball is played for offside, the clarity and fidelity of the cameras for when the ball is played for offside, what constitutes a red card when the video shows an over the ball challenge, and whether there is SUFFICIENT contact to constitute A FOUL that would normally produce a penalty decision.

Instead, it’s become something else…in the eyes of many fans. As we have heard, some VARs don’t like to overturn the match official or force them to overturn an on field call.

I’m fairly agnostic, as I think it has been very helpful in settling tight offside calls when the timing of the “when the ball is played” is correct.

However, even with the blue-tinted specs tucked in their case, to NOT point out to Taylor that Jota dived after receiving minimal contact from a goalkeeper who recognized the poor touch wide and pulled out of the challenge, was a disgrace.

Atwell had a duty to (AT A MINIMUM!!!) tell Taylor to have a look at the monitor, with the possibility that Jota, not Dubravka, should get the yellow card for diving.

I can live with the possibility that Taylor was conned by an exceedingly late and obvious dive he should have been able to identify. But, to suggest Atwell and Co could possibly be conned, given the definitive video confirmation, creates incredulity.

And, aren’t most threads here designed to air the strong negative feelings about the topic at hand…Media Discussion is an easy example, and most political threads, too?!

The media thread is pointless bar venting spleens. Social media bubbles have made people immune to reading or hearing criticism. Hence all commentators are awful as well.

Politics affects peoples’ lives and is more important to me than other topics.

Anyway, back to this thread’s topic, VAR has highlighted the high number of subjective calls made by referees in football and the LOTG weren’t written with forensic scrutiny from 15 camera angles in slow motion.

Hence we have this mess now that Webb has made worse.

Clear and obvious needs binning. Not re-refereeing needs binning. It seems VAR is scared to overturn onfield decisions unless they can’t back them up at all.

The penalty conversation last night should have been:

“There’s contact, penalty”

“Ok, We can see that Anthony, but he takes two further steps before falling to the ground, so we suggest you look at it again as we don’t think the contact has made him fall over.”

How that is written in the LOTG, I don’t know, but maybe we need to work backwards from the outcome we want to happen rather than tying ourselves up in knots with billions of sub-laws.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

As a side note, I think this has been the most cordial and decent debate that we’ve had in here for ages.

I think we all want the same thing in getting as many decisions right as possible, it’s just how we all get to that point being different.

 

[mancboy]

the laws of the game at the moment arent fit for purpose especially this not blowing up until the play is dead on offside, not only does it run the risk of unnecessary injury as we have seen but it also gives teams corners quite often that they shouldnt have had.

The main problem with var is the believe that it exonerates refs of all responsibility when it doesnt, var should be a tool to help refs it should not exonerate them of patently poor refereeing or being called out for it.